Prime Time Replay:
Dr. Mary Jo Sabo
on Biofeedback
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(18)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:04:35 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.33
Welcome to Breakthrough Medicine! I'd like to introduce tonight's guest, Dr. Mary Jo Sabo. Dr. Sabo is the administrator of the Pain and StressBiofeedback Center in Spring Valley N.Y.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(19)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:05:44 EDT 1996
From: sabo At: 204.141.125.66
Hi, I am happy to be here tonight.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(24)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:07:53 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.17
Dr. Sabo, let's discuss how you use biofeedback in your center. Or, perhaps, we should first back up a little and discuss just what biofeedback is.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(29)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:12:54 EDT 1996
From: sabo At: 204.141.125.66
Biofeedback is the science of listening to the body understanding its messages, and using the mind to control unhealthy responses to pain and stress.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(30)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:13:48 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.33
Now, why is this effective for treating children with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(32)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:16:22 EDT 1996
From: sabo At: 204.141.125.66
In EEG we present information to the child about what is happening in their brain. The children play computerized games with a sensor attached to their head. Gradually, with positive reinforcements, children begin to learn how to pay attention.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(35)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:22:05 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.9
Many children are put on medication to treat ADD. Let's discuss the difference between these approaches.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(52)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:25:36 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.33
Dr. Sabo is having trouble with her computer. In reply: Biofeedback teaches children self medication without the use of drugs.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(55)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:27:10 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.9
Dr. Sabo: As we're all well aware, drugs have side effects such as headaches. Many parents tell us that the child loses their personality when they take drugs, such as Ritalin. Biofeedback has been shown to be very effective in helping children to reach a particular brain wave pattern which allows them to learn effectively.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(62)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:29:28 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.33
Dr. Sabo, what are the brain wave patterns that you are talking about?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(66)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:33:21 EDT 1996
From: Dr_Mary_Joe_Sabo At: 206.80.166.81
The brain is electrical activity, and brain waves are calculated in cycles per second. A very slow brain wave goes between 1 and 3 cycles per second and that is called delta. The next brain wave is theta and that reads from 4 to 7 cycles per second. Alpha brain waves are between 8 and 12 cycles per second. The brain wave that's associated with attention focus is called SMR, Sensory Motor Rythym or low beta. Children with Attention Deficit Disorder present with a brain wave pattern that usually shows amplitude (or volume) in a slow brain wave pattern which is usually theta.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(69)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:38:44 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.33
So the biofeedback training allows them to train their brain to be at the effective cycles for learning, whenever they need to be?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(71)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:40:27 EDT 1996
From: Dr_Mary_Joe_Sabo At: 206.80.166.81
Yes, that is correct. The children receive information in the form of visual or auditory feedback from the computer. Each time they put themself into SMR or low beta, they get the reinforcement, the reward. The wonderful thing about the brain is it can learn -- after perhaps 20-30 training sessions, the brain can learn to produce that brainwave pattern on its own. /
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(72)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:42:00 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.17
How does a child on medication approach biofeedback?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(73)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:43:56 EDT 1996
From: Dr_Mary_Joe_Sabo At: 206.80.166.81
We do not take any children off any medication when they begin biofeedback training. However, as the brain starts to self-regulate, parents often take the children off the medication because they find the child no longer needs the drug. In many instances, the child will begin to develop headaches or become very lethargic due to the medication. The parents then know that the child no longer needs to take the drugs. So we do not take children off of the drug until the parent or child themselves feel it's no longer needed. /
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(74)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:45:38 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.17
Can you talk about any particular patients and the improvement biofeedback made in their school work?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(75)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:46:29 EDT 1996
From: Dr_Mary_Joe_Sabo At: 206.80.166.81
Currently, I'm involved in a research project in a public school in Yonkers, NY. The first child is called MH. He was born 10/26/86. Normal birth, normal delivery. MH had many head injuries as a small child. He would bang his head on the floor to get attention when he was a toddler. He had numerous bike injuries, falling down injuries, and was an accident-prone child. Early in life, he was a discipline problem. He would not listen to his parents, or pay attention to anything they said. He was stubborn and very manipulative. MH was always a problem in school and at home. He was a discipline problem in the school and in the classroom. When we met him in September, the first day of school, he was in the principal's office. He was locked in his room after school and not allowed to play with other children because of the lack of his selfcontrol and self discipline. He was not allowed to eat lunch with classmates nor to have recess due to his behavioral problems. Academically, MH is a very bright child and able to pass grades in spite of all the discipline problems that he has. He does well in math and he can read well also. His teacher, however, spends a great deal of the day disciplining him. We began biofeedback training in January of 1996. He had a difficult time cooperating with the biofeedback clinician and would spend a portion of the training time cursing, moving around in his chair, and being disruptive. His biofeedback consisted of 30 minute training sessions five days a week. The biofeedback research team, of which I'm the head, received feedback from the teacher on a weekly basis and from his parents. In April of 1996, MH's minister from the church came to the school to see what was happening with MH; his behavior had changed so dramatically. He was able to sit in the training room for the 30 minute training session by May and was spending less time in the principal's office. His mother, who was a regular visitor to the school, began to talk to others about the change in MH's behavior. MH began to feel good about himself. During one meeting that I had with him, he told me that his mother liked him now. He began to have more friends and his behavior was noticed by the staff in general. The training protocol was to inhibit the flow of brain waves (theta 4-7) and to reward SMR 13-15. He received a total of 55 sessions. The training continued into July and his mother allowed him to walk to the training by himself. I decided to check on him right now to see how he was doing. He is not a behavioral problem in the classroom, and to this day he has not been sent to the principal's office once.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(84)
Date: Wed Oct 9 21:59:51 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.9
Sounds like biofeedback was the right therapy for that patient. Can we discuss the use of biofeedback in other situations, such as treatment for pain?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(85)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:02:10 EDT 1996
From: Dr_Mary_Joe_Sabo At: 206.80.166.81
Biofeedback has been shown to be effective in helping patients who suffer from pain of any kind. It is especially effective in treating patients who have had accidents, car accidents, falling down accidents, teaching self-regulation of brain waves. We also use EMG training, temperature training, and ETR. These are all forms of biofeedback, teaching self-empowerment to the person. In many instances, patients are able to give up pain killers by using the power of the brain. We have an incredible tool, we all have it, and we're learning each day to use it more.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(87)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:03:57 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.33
One last question, Dr. Sabo. How do athletes use biofeedback to achieve peak performance?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(88)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:06:48 EDT 1996
From: Dr_Mary_Joe_Sabo At: 206.80.166.81
Peak performance means that the athletes desire to perform at their maximum potential under extreme duress -- they have to enter into a mental state which frees them from distractions. This state enables the athlete to focus on the sport he or she is involved in. This state is known as "the Zone." Biofeedback shows the athlete what it feels like when he or she enters this state of mind. Getting into this state means reaching first high levels of theta and alpha. The next state, competition, is a blend of alpha and low-frequency beta. Biofeedback clinicians can teach the athlete to relax and then to imagine going through a perfect performance, so they are visualizing skillful performances during stressful situations. EEG biofeedback gives the athlete feedback by sound and visual reward.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(89)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:08:31 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.33
Goodnight, Dr. Sabo, and thank you for talking with us on Breakthrough Medicine.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(86)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:02:40 EDT 1996
From: Dr_Mary_Joe_Sabo At: 206.80.166.81
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be on this program. :) In case anybody wants to contact me about biofeedback, I can be reached at 914-356-2392. The Pain and Stress Biofeedback Center, Spring Valley, NY. Goodnight! :)
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(92)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:10:37 EDT 1996
From: moderator At: 152.163.233.9
Thank you again, Dr. Sabo, for your informative discussion of biofeedback and its applications. Please tune in next week for another session of Breakthrough Medicine. Goodnight.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(93)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:10:58 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Stay tuned for open chat on biofeedback!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(95)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:13:10 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
What do you think about biofeedback? Have you ever used it? I read articles in the paper that say that too many children use Ritalin. Does biofeedback sound like a better choice?What about pain? Would you rather do biofeedback than pop a pill? The pill might be faster, but it's more invasive to your body.
What do you think about biofeedback? Is it just another New Age fad? Or does it really work?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(102)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:33:08 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Hi Marilee!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(103)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:33:36 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Hi Techyo!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(104)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:34:15 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Dr. Sabo was telling us about a boy with severe behavioral problems, and how, with biofeedback, he became a model student. What do you think about that? Is it just a fad?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(105)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:34:38 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
So biofeeedback does self taught count?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(106)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:35:26 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
She was talking about training sessions, but if you can achieve the same thing yourself, it should work. She has case histories of it working for pain and stress relief, too.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(107)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:35:27 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Well it's like any mind control thing it can help you take control of yourself.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(108)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:35:57 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
And it's less invasive than taking pills. Do you think too many kids are on Ritalin?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(109)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:36:04 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Yeah i use it some when I have migranes.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(110)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:36:44 EDT 1996
From: pathways At: 204.255.25.54
biofeedback is not a fad. it is one of the most powerful ways to unlock the full potential of the brain for both healing and peak performance. unlike drugs, it helps to permanently reprogram the brain to work more efficiently and effectively. countless positive results in clinical settings attest to its efficacy with a wide variety of disabilities.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(111)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:36:52 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Oh my brother got real strange after they had him on Ritalin.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(112)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:37:18 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Pathways, welcome! So you have experience with biofeedback?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(114)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:41:25 EDT 1996
From: pathways At: 204.255.25.54
yeah, quite a bit. i happen to be a colleague of dr. sabo's and was listening in at her invitation tonite. i figured i had to put my 2 cents worth in, especially in response to the comment about bfb being possibly a "fad".
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(115)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:42:26 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
LOL Pathways, controversial questions are a good way to make people talk, and it worked with you. Have you had any experiences using biofeedback for patients in massive chronic pain?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(117)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:43:22 EDT 1996
From: pathways At: 204.255.25.54
you bet!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(118)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:43:23 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Well it's far too late for him the damage is done. I could see him get stoned out when they gave it to him. I do wish he'd had something like biofeedback to help him instead.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(119)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:44:13 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
How long does it usually take to help someone in chronic pain?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(120)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:44:49 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Tech, it is too bad that there weren't other alternatives for your brother. Do you use biofeedback just for migraines, or for other pain or stress?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(121)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:46:31 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Well sometimes for temp controll I can sit in fairly high temp if I use it.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(122)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:47:14 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Really? That's interesting. I wonder if that would help people who routinely work in extreme temperatures.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(123)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:48:21 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Probably not as I can only do it at rest.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(124)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:49:12 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Pathways, what do you think? Would biofeedback work to regulate temperature in extreme environments?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(125)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:49:15 EDT 1996
From: pathways At: 204.255.25.54
depends on the cause of the pain. bfb does not heal injury, but it tunes the neurological system to facilitate healing and reduce the stress which causes the body to continue to "defend" an injured area through contractions. it also allows the brain to "shift gears" in terms of its perception of pain so that the pain amy still be there, but it doesn't "hurt" as much
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(126)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:49:52 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
The trick is the same for migranes and temp control. It's like I send blood to my feet or some such.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(127)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:51:17 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Pathways, have you had success with stroke patients? Particularly with balance problems? Or is that too mechanical?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(128)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:52:20 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
That is interesting pathways! It's much deeper than what I've achived.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(129)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:55:42 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
It's amazing what has been done with biofeedback. Do insurance companies pay for it? Or do patients pay from their own pockets?
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(130)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:55:56 EDT 1996
From: pathways At: 204.255.25.54
as a matter of fact, at the clinic i'm now associated with, we are using a cutting edge version of eeg bfb which has shown some remarkable clinical results with both post-stroke and spinal cord injury patients, in terms of return of feeling, movement, and speech and language function. just this evening we were working with a post-stroke pateint who has right side partial apralysis, just completing her seventh session, who is showing significant return of motor control
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(131)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:57:57 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
That's fascinating, Pathways. This could make a big difference for stroke and SCI patients.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(132)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:58:23 EDT 1996
From: MarkW At: 206.80.164.43
Hi all!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(133)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:58:55 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Hi Mark! Have you ever used biofeedback? :)
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(134)
Date: Wed Oct 9 22:59:45 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
That's great Pathway! Hi MArk!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(135)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:00:32 EDT 1996
From: MarkW At: 206.80.164.43
Biofeedback? No, I haven't.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(136)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:00:35 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Pathways, before we close down, why don't you tell us with which clinic you're associated, and how to contact it. :)
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(137)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:01:17 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Mark, Dr. Sabo was telling us earlier that it's been very successful in treating stress. Maybe biofeedback should be taught in school.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(140)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:02:23 EDT 1996
From: MarkW At: 206.80.164.43
I'm for anything that can help reduce stress levels.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(142)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:02:51 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
LOL That's why I mentioned it. :)
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(144)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:02:53 EDT 1996
From: sabo At: 204.141.125.51
I have information about insurance. Most insurance companies will pay for biofeedback if there is a medical diagnosis. Medicare will pay for biofeedback for pain, hypertension, headaches and muscle spasms. Many other insurance companies will also reimburse. You need to call ins. and ask questions.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(149)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:04:48 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
That's great, Dr. Sabo! Nice to have you drop by. :)
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(151)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:06:03 EDT 1996
From: pathways At: 204.255.25.54
Pathways can be found at Stone Mountain Counseling Center, near New Paltz, New York (914-658-8083). by the way, if anyone is interested in the new eeg bfb technology we are using, do a search using any web browser and look for "flexyx."
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(153)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:06:53 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Thanks, Pathways! We appreciate the information. :)
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(154)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:07:14 EDT 1996
From: MarkW At: 206.80.164.43
Thanks, Dr. Sabo!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(156)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:07:43 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Thanks Pathways I'll do that.
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(157)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:07:46 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Well folks, our time here is up. I don't have the schedule for next week, but Madeleine Lebwohl will be interviewing another medical guest at 9pm and I'll follow with a related open chat at 10pm ET. Be sure to join us for Breakthrough Medicine!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(160)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:08:51 EDT 1996
From: techyo At: 152.170.121.83
Thanks Marilee Bye ALL!
MsgId: *breakthru_medicine(161)
Date: Wed Oct 9 23:09:15 EDT 1996
From: Mod:_Marilee At: 206.80.166.81
Good night, and good health!
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