Prime Time Replay:
Dr. Dean Ornish
on His Bestselling Program for Eating Healthy
MsgId: *breakthrough(5)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:02:09 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Good evening, and welcome to Breakthrough Medicine. I'm Madeleine Lebwohl and tonight I'll be talking with Dr. Dean Ornish. Dr. Ornish is president and director the the nonprofit Preventive Medicine Research Institute in Sausalito, California. He is clinical professor of medicine at the School of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco, and an attending physician at California Pacific Medical Center. He's also the author of the bestselling books "Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease" and "Eat More, Weigh Less." Hello, Dr. Ornish, and welcome to Breakthrough Medicine. Let's start by talking about the extroadinary success of your work.
MsgId: *breakthrough(10)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:08:01 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.65
Having seen what a powerful difference comprehensive changes in diet and lifestyle can make in people's lives, it is gratifying that there has been so much interest in our work.
MsgId: *breakthrough(11)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:09:11 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Right now you're physician consultant to President Clinton. Will this give your work more mainstream followers?
MsgId: *breakthrough(12)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:10:02 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.65
I admire President & Mrs. Clinton, but whatever your politics, I think that when the President of the U.S. and his family make a commitment to eating more healthfully and exercising, I think that sets a great example for everyone. If he can do it, anyone can.
MsgId: *breakthrough(15)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:14:31 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Dr. Ornish, there's no doubt that your program saves lives. To what do you attribute people's hesitance to add meditation or the extreme fat reduction that you recommend?
MsgId: *breakthrough(21)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:22:48 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
Many people think they have to choose between a diet that makes you live longer or just *seems* longer. That isn't the choice-- and when you make comprehensive changes all at once, most people find they feel so much better, so quickly, the choices become clearer and, for many, worth making. Not to live longer but to live better. Not out of fear of dying but to increase the joy of living.
MsgId: *breakthrough(16)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:18:08 EST 1996
From: guest At: 207.69.152.234
I'm looking for improvement in angina?
MsgId: *breakthrough(18)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:21:30 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 206.80.176.128
It's remarkable how quickly angina resolves when people make comprehensive changes in diet and lifestyle. In our research we found a 91% reduction in angina when people make comprehensive changes in diet and lifestyle.
MsgId: *breakthrough(19)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:22:30 EST 1996
From: guest At: 152.163.231.202
Do you permit chocolate ice cream in your program?
MsgId: *breakthrough(22)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:24:10 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
I like chocolate. I do not recommend it for people who have heart disease. If, like me, your cholesterol is below 150, and you have no risk factors for heart disease, then have a *little* chocolate. I would prefer to have one bite of a really good piece of rich chocolate than a pint of fat-free frozen yogurt.
MsgId: *breakthrough(23)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:25:11 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Have patients have other diseases improve after being on your program?
MsgId: *breakthrough(24)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:25:44 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
Although our research focused on patients with heart disease, this helped document what a powerful difference these simple changes can make. Increasing evidence supports that the same program may help prevent prostate cancer, breast cancer, colon cancer, osteoporosis, diabetes, hypertension, obesity, etc.
MsgId: *breakthrough(25)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:27:00 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
So why, if the message if longevity or at least a better and healthier existence, don't people make the sacrifices, which actually small in the face of possible mortality?
MsgId: *breakthrough(26)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:27:49 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
Fear of dying is not a very powerful motivator, at least in the wrong run. It's too scary to think that something bad may happen to us, so we don't, at least not for long. Neither is living to be 86 instead of 85-- unless you're 85. What does work is feeling better quickly. That's why I made these changes in my own life.We found that the primary determinant of improvement was neither age nor severity but adherence. In other words, the more people changed their diet and lifestyle, the more they improved. This is a very hopeful message-- and not what I expected to find.
MsgId: *breakthrough(29)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:29:51 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Is there any age limit for starting the program? It's sometimes shown that even the very young have heart disease, or clogged arteries. Can you start the full program too soon?
MsgId: *breakthrough(30)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:32:31 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
Infants should be breast fed. Children can go on vegetarian diets, but not as low in fat. Heart disease begins in childhood, but more important is that taste preferences are formed at young ages.
MsgId: *breakthrough(31)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:34:01 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Food with fat is in our culture. Do you see a food movement starting to clean up our food environment?
MsgId: *breakthrough(32)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:35:16 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
I think it's already starting. But advertisers spend a lot of money "educating" people about eating high-fat foods. There is also a retro trend towards cigars, meat, etc. In the NY Times today, there was an article indicating that for the 4th year in a row, America is eating more fat than ever.
MsgId: *breakthrough(33)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:36:34 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Eight sites at major hospitals around the country are now enrolling patients in your program. What kind of response have they gotten?
MsgId: *breakthrough(34)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:37:21 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
When I began doing research 20 years ago, it was thought by most people to be impossible to reverse the progression of heart disease. Equally impossible was the belief that people could make and maintain comprehensive changes in diet and lifestyle. In our research over the past 20 years, we demonstrated that both were possible. The idea that the progression of heart disease is often reversible has now become mainstream. The skepticism is: how practical is it? Before, no one could do it. Then, it was, "Well, you live in California, it's an altered state, they'll do anything."So, we have now trained (via our non-profit Preventive Medicine Research Institute in Sausalito, 415/332-2525) eight hospitals in different parts of the country. Call if you want their names, but they include Harvard's Beth Israel Hospital, Scripps in La Jolla, and others. Over the past three years we've learned that about 90% of people who were eligible for bypass surgery or angioplasty have been able to avoid these operations (under their doctor's supervision). As a result, insurance companies are saving approximately $5.55 for every dollar spent. My new book, "Everyday Cooking with Dr. Dean Ornish," came out of that experience. Simple meals, with easy-to-find ingredients that you can make very quickly.
MsgId: *breakthrough(38)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:41:11 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Your book literally gives the recipe for taking out the fat. And the meditation part seems too easy to argue if you are truly sick. I expect Americans will catch up with your ideas in the near future.
MsgId: *breakthrough(39)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:41:43 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
It's not just for sick people. I began making these changes in my diet and began practicing yoga and meditation (which I learned from Sri Swami Satchidananda) when I was 19 because I found what a powerful difference it made in the quality of my life. Even if I knew I wouldn't live a day longer, I'd still do these.
MsgId: *breakthrough(40)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:42:37 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Well, I completely agree, but it often seems that it takes a crisis for someone to change their lifestyle.
MsgId: *breakthrough(41)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:44:04 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
The real epidemic in our country is not only physical heart disease, it's what I often call emotional or spiritual heart disease: the loneliness, isolation, depression, and alienation that are so prevalent in our culture with the breakdown of the social networks that used to give us a sense of connection and community. If we don't address this underlying pain, it's difficult to motivate people even to take their pills. My program is designed to help people use the experience of suffering-- physically and otherwise-- as a catalyst and a doorway to begin transforming their lives in ways that go beyond the physical. Ironically, the physical heart often heals even more when we open our hearts in other ways.
MsgId: *breakthrough(42)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:45:25 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Would an improvement in medical education help? Are doctors being taught these things in medical schools?
MsgId: *breakthrough(43)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:47:09 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
At the University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine, I was asked this week to direct a program there in research, teaching, and clinical practice in integrative medicine. This will be a model for how to train medical students, interns, residents, fellows, and physicians in the theory and practice of integrative medicine, combining the best of traditional and nontraditional approaches. So things are changing in ways that I find very encouraging. Last week, for example, I presented at the first workshop on complementary medicine at the American Heart Association's annual scientific sessions in New Orleans. I'm encouraged.
MsgId: *breakthrough(44)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:48:49 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Insurance companies are only waking up to preventive medicine as a money saver. Do you see this improving anytime soon?
MsgId: *breakthrough(48)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:54:07 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
In the past, insurance companies were reluctant to pay for diet and lifestyle because they viewed it as prevention, and it may take years to see the benefits. Now, approximately 30 insurance companies are covering our program in the hospitals we have trained because it is so much less expensive than the bypass surgery, angioplasty, or cholesterol-lowering drugs they otherwise would have paid for. Savings are often immediate and dramatic.
MsgId: *breakthrough(50)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:55:17 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Do you see the day when your program will be considered a standard therapy in the eyes of insurance companies?
MsgId: *breakthrough(51)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:55:41 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
It's already happening. Not out of altruism or compassion necessarily, but because it is so much less expensive. At the same time, it's important to do more research to determine what works from what doesn't, for whom, and under what circumstances.
MsgId: *breakthrough(53)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:56:55 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
The creativity of your chefs is definitely part of the positive side of changing one's eating habits to your healthful regime.
MsgId: *breakthrough(54)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:57:35 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
We've learned that the best way to make low-fat foods taste good is to work with great chefs, even if they're not known for low-fat cooking, and ask them to work within our guidelines. Great chefs know how to make great food. In my books (e.g., "Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease," "Eat More, Weigh Less," "Everyday Cooking with Dr. Dean Ornish," I've commissioned some of the country's best chefs-- the creme de la creme is probably the wrong metaphor...-- and asked them to work within these guidelines. As a result, the foods are delicious, beautifully presented, and nutritious.
MsgId: *breakthrough(52)
Date: Wed Nov 20 21:56:12 EST 1996
From: Dee At: 206.80.167.5
There's a lot of talk about cutting fat out of the diet, but how do you know when you've reached the right level? Is it possible to go too far and not have enough fat in one's diet?
MsgId: *breakthrough(55)
Date: Wed Nov 20 22:00:07 EST 1996
From: Dr._Dean_Ornish At: 152.163.233.55
It is possible to have too little fat. You need about 4% of calories from fat to provide essential fatty acids. The diet I recommend is 10% fat: predominantly fruits, vegetables, grains, and beans, with moderate amounts of nonfat dairy and egg whites. Avoid simple sugars-- sugar, alcohol (which gets converted to sugar), white flour-- which get absorbed quickly and cause an insulin response which, in turn, accelerates the conversion of calories into body fat. Complex carbohydrates (fruits, vegetables, grains, and beans) are high in fiber and won't do that. The goal is not to eat more animal protein, as some books suggest, but fewer simple carbohydrates and more complex ones. Thanks so much for the opportunity to be here today. For more information on our work and programs, please call 1-800-775-7674. Good night!
MsgId: *breakthrough(56)
Date: Wed Nov 20 22:02:56 EST 1996
From: moderator At: 206.80.176.128
Thank you, Dr. Ornish, for speaking with me on Breakthrough Medicine.
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