Prime Time Replay:
Dr. Philip Singer
on Popular Shamanism
MsgId: *brain_storm(1)
Date: Fri Nov 29 21:29:33 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
Welcome to Brainstorms. I'm your host, Dr. Keith Harary, Editor at Large of Omni. Our guest tonight will be Oakland University anthropologist Dr. Philip Singer discussing the dangers he sees in the widespread popularization of Shamanism by academic anthropologists and many others. In Singer's view, it is wrong for academic anthropologists to teach workshops in Shamanism, or to lead others to believe that they can easily be trained to become Shamans.Singer recently produced the documentary, "Reinventing Shamanism," in which he explores the question of whether such a popular approach to traditional cultures is not simply a money-making proposition for unethical anthropologists and/or a dubious way to satisfy the mystical hunger of the masses. Singer, whose specialty is medical anthropology, is particularly concerned about the implications of this practice for the growing interest in alternative medicine and healing, since those promoting Shamanism on the popular circuit often make claims about the alleged therapeutic value of such things as prayer and spiritual healing.
Singer is also the producer of several other documentary series exploring claims about alternative medicine and healing, including CONVENTIONAL and UNCONVENTIONAL PRACTITIONERS OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE IN THE USA; COMPLEMENTARY HEALTH THERAPIES IN ENGLAND; and the recently released documentary SHE WHO IS GOD: PRAYERS TO KALI MAI. (For those who are interested, these educational series are all available by calling 810-644-8079 or by contacting Singer via e mail at singer@oakland.edu.)
Join us tonight on Brainstorms for what promises to be a stimulating and controversial discussion of the pros and cons of popular Shamanism with this highly respected medical anthropologist and field investigator. Since this will be an open discussion, we invite you to bring your questions and join us in exploring tonight's topic live on-line with Dr. Singer.
For clarity, as always, we'll identify ourselves by our initials: KH for Keith Harary and PS for Philip Singer.
KH: Welcome to Brainstorms, Dr. Singer.
MsgId: *brain_storm(7)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:00:15 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: I'm very glad to be here, Keith.
MsgId: *brain_storm(9)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:01:22 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: For openers, Philip, can you give our viewers a quick definition of Shamanism?
MsgId: *brain_storm(10)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:02:59 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: There are basically six characteristics of who and what a Shaman is as studied by anthropologists. The initiation into Shamanism is basically through pain and suffering. The individual resists the call, usually over a great deal of time. Second, there is a need for solitude. Also involved are fantasies, hallucinations, and spirit possession. There is the ability to transform oneself into an animal, and the ability to go into a trance. In short, to be a Shaman is an honest and respected status in one's own culture.
MsgId: *brain_storm(12)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:04:33 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: What is the traditional role of the Shaman in native cultures?
MsgId: *brain_storm(13)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:05:57 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: It's to try to cure other people within their own culture with the assistance of the Shaman's supernatural helpers. It may also include the use of herbs and sometimes some invasive procedures involving some cutting of the skin and bleeding. Their may also be some animal sacrifice.
MsgId: *brain_storm(14)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:07:19 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: That sounds like a very involved role within a particular culture. How is, then, that we often hear about such things as weekend retreats -- here in America -- in which those who sign up are promised some basic Shamanistic training?
MsgId: *brain_storm(15)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:08:21 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: Today, in America, anthropologists who should know better are reinventing Shamanism and making money off of it through workshops and travel agencies.You can contrast what I defined as the characteristics of a shaman with what another anthropologist who should know better, Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D., says about his workshops: "Shamanism is based on the teachings of the Earth. Trees speak to us. Clouds speak to us. Rivers speak to us. Part of our duty today is to put the soul back into the world and create a world that talks back to us. The path of the Shaman who walks with beauty and grace is available to all of us today."
Another Shaman who is cited by Timothy White, who is the founding publisher of Shaman's Drum, says about Sandra Ingerman, who is a graduate of one of Michael Harner's workshops, that she is a credit to the workshop. Sandra Ingerman is now conducting her own workshops of two-days duration in which she says that she will "teach how to help a person who has died, who needs assistance in moving to a more comfortable place. Other journeys include meeting with deceased relatives to see if they are okay." She is the educational director for Michael Harner's Foundation for Shamanic Studies. Learning to talk to the dead will cost you $235.00.
There is another anthropologist, or at least a self-described medical anthropologist, John Heinerman, who has written a book in which he says there are cures which he has discovered as a result of studying with Shamans, American Indians, the Chinese, etc., and if you buy his book you can be cured of adenoids, alcoholism, athlete's foot, blood poisoning, constipation, flu, flatulence, herpes, pms, varicose veins, and many more ills. My comment to all this is that he is exploiting the needs of people who have chronic problems and who want miracles.
MsgId: *brain_storm(20)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:19:47 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
Here's a question from a member of our audience: As a former student of Michael Harner, I can assure you that he does not teach that shamanism can be taught. What he proposes to do is teach methods to contact the spirits. If the students is sincere and the spirits are willing, the spirits will initiate the student at a deeper and deeper level. And the primary focus is to learn to be of service to others, the community, and the earth. -Alida Birch
MsgId: *brain_storm(21)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:20:34 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: My response is that obviously the respondent is not able to distinguish subjective experience from objective phenomena.Let me add that Alberto Villoldo has a certification program which enables people who take his program to establish a professional practice in what he calls "luminous healing." As far as the person who responded just now, if she feels that she is able to talk to the dead, there really is not much point in continuing this conversation with her.
MsgId: *brain_storm(23)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:24:18 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: Those who are involved in the popularization of Shamanism in Western Culture might take issue with some of your statements. They might, for example, suggest that there is nothing harmful about their beliefs, and that such beliefs may provide them with a sense of spiritual grounding and may even help them get in touch with some essential aspects of their own inner nature. What would you say to those who find benefit in such beliefs?
MsgId: *brain_storm(24)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:25:00 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: If such a belief keeps you from being committed to a mental hospital, you are welcome to it.
MsgId: *brain_storm(25)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:26:00 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: Does that mean that, for the most part, you do not see anything positive coming out of such beliefs?
MsgId: *brain_storm(27)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:27:53 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: My response is that I think we all need to pose the question of whether some things are better than other things. To paraphrase the great anthropologist A. Kroeber, is a belief in rationalism more progressive than a belief in supernaturalism? Is a belief in technology more progressive than a belief in magic?
MsgId: *brain_storm(28)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:29:09 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
Here's another question from a viewer: I've attended workshops taught by Sandra and others, and can well say that it might be worth $235 to learn to talk to the dead! Compare that with less than 4 sessions with a psychologist at $70 each. Certainly, these methods can be learned. I've found workshop fees to be reasonable, and the methods effective. Here's a question: If someone gets a benefit from a workshop or a book, then isn't it worthwhile to them? In our culture we have only the accepted medical models available; and they deal with only part of the question. Should not we expand our inquiry into "what is known" beyond this physical reality? -Reid Hart
MsgId: *brain_storm(29)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:30:23 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: Again, the questioner poses the question which I have posed: Can rational people agree that rationalism and the scientific method is better than subjectively psychotic and/or deranged persons and their systems of belief?I would add that I am not talking about belief in God. All that I am intending is to say that to give money and social rewards for those who hold such beliefs is really reactionary in the old, liberal sense of the word. It means that you're stupid.
MsgId: *brain_storm(31)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:32:57 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: But Philip, aren't these really religious beliefs we are talking about? Is it right to call beliefs we disagree with "stupid?"
MsgId: *brain_storm(32)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:34:47 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: Yes, you can characterize this as religion. And that is fine if it is for you personally. But if it involve proselitizing others, then I am opposed to it. The danger in proselitizing others is that you make people believe without any objective evidence in such things as Satan, and an objective evil over which you have no control.
MsgId: *brain_storm(33)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:36:43 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: What do you think about the many claims that are made pertaining to Shamanism and healing? Certainly, these claims seem to have a place within native cultures. Doe they have a place within Western culture -- perhaps in the sense of borrowing or learning something potentially useful from the natives? Or do you think such beliefs are purely dangerous?
MsgId: *brain_storm(35)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:40:12 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: Under the very loose definition of who a Shaman is as expounded by Sandra Ingerman, Michael Harner, Alberto Villoldo, Timothy White, we can say that Evangelical Christian preachers who invoke the biblical gifts of the spirit to perform their "miracle healings" and who call upon "Dr. Jesus" to give a new heart to people, that they are also Shamans. I have personally investigated the Rev. W. V. Grant, who is on television around the country and hold miracle healing rallies in person and have found that he has put at jeopardy people with diabetes, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc., by saying that -- since he is a medium for Dr. Jesus, these persons are now cured. There is a real danger in these kinds of things.
MsgId: *brain_storm(36)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:42:03 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: A further comment from our earlier viewer: One limitation of the scientific method is that in this case, collecting the experimental data requires going beyond this reality. Just because the data is not in the conventional, agreed to paradigm does not nullify the data. If one performs a soul retrieval, or a power emporement ceremony, the question is does the client get well? If one journeys to another reality, does it require belief, or rather does it require what our friends the greeks call "suspension of disbelief" The practice of shamanic methods are not about religion, or about beliefs, they are about using age old methods and seeing what the results are. -Reid Hart
MsgId: *brain_storm(37)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:45:06 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: Since the respondent talks about data, I would be very interested and responsive to real data. That means, in the case of illness, clinical confirmation of the illness or disease, what parallel treatments the person was receiving if any, and what the outcome was. Furthermore, since most of the problems (over 80% in America of problems brought to the physician) are non-organic, it is very likely that a person can be "cured" by talking to spirits, the dead, totem animals, etc., because they never did have organic pathology to begin with.I would like to add that, in my own work, as a medical-visual anthropologist, I subscribe to the methodology of description without affirmation. Thus, my documentaries describe without passing judgement on the complementary or alternative therapy as I have described it. I would add that I am also quite disturbed over the fact that Harvard Medical School's Continuing Medical Education Program is currently offering programs on spirituality and medicine, and unconventional or alternative medicines. Also, that the American Medical Association passed a resolution in 1995 asking its 300,000 members to "become better informed regarding the practices and techniques of alternative or unconventional medicine." Physicians now pay $525 to listen to M.D.s and Ph.D.s as they provide perspectives of healing spiritually. My response to that is that the medical establisment has always known where the money is going back to the days when they took over the botanicals practice in the 19th Century and homeopathy in the 20th Century. They are now turning to where the money is, which includes Shamanism and spirituality.
MsgId: *brain_storm(42)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:54:18 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: But, is there not some benefit to be found in some alternative approaches to healing? For example, isn't there some value to be found on a focus on diet rather than drugs, and can't we also learn -- perhaps -- from some native herbal healers about potentially useful sources of new medicines? Would you distinguish this kind of alternative medicine from claims about such things as communicating with dead people?
MsgId: *brain_storm(43)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:55:26 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: Herbal and nutritional investigation and research is science. All the rest of it involving supernaturalism is the dumbing down of America.
MsgId: *brain_storm(44)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:55:55 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: Here is another question from a viewer: I am interested in knowing if Dr. Singer has any personal experience with shamanism. Journeying, initiation, etc?
MsgId: *brain_storm(46)
Date: Fri Nov 29 22:58:59 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: I am a Certified Clincal Hypnotist who has taken many "out-of-body" trips using LSD, peyote, and the magic mushroom, and thoroughly enjoyed them all. I have also worked with Haitian refugees, in Lansing, Michigan, who have not responded to psychiatric drugs, and though symbolic manipulation, I have been able to cure them and restore them to meaningful, productive functioning in the community.
MsgId: *brain_storm(47)
Date: Fri Nov 29 23:00:23 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: Well, we getting to the end of tonight's show. One last question, Philip: How do you feel, personally, about the various anthropologists you have mentioned who are currently involved in popularizing Shamanism in the Western world?
MsgId: *brain_storm(48)
Date: Fri Nov 29 23:01:37 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: I think the ethics committee of the American Anthropological Association should investigate them. If anyone wishes to continue this conversation, please contact me at singer@oakland.edu. Please include your postal address.
MsgId: *brain_storm(49)
Date: Fri Nov 29 23:02:11 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: Thank you, Dr. Philip Singer for a very hot discussion here on Brainstorms.
MsgId: *brain_storm(50)
Date: Fri Nov 29 23:02:37 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
PS: You're welcome.
MsgId: *brain_storm(51)
Date: Fri Nov 29 23:04:22 EST 1996
From: Keith_Harary_and_Philip_Singer At: 206.80.176.33
KH: Many thanks, also, to our on-line audience for joining us and for posting your thoughts and questions for Dr. Singer. I'm your host, Dr. Keith Harary, inviting you to join us again next week at this same time for another fascinating discussion with a leading researcher exploring the boundaries of the mind, the brain, and human behavior. Good night for Brainstorms.
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