Prime Time Replay:
Carla Sinclair
on Women in Cyberspace
MsgId: *emedia(7)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:00:42 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.165
Hello, folks. Welcome to another session of "E-Media," the cyberculture chat. Tonight's guest is author/'zine maven Carla Sinclair, whose latest title, "Net Chick: A Smart-Girl Guide to the Wired World," gives women guides into finding their own spaces and places on the Web!I'll have to ask that any guests with questions for Carla please hold off until about 9:30 EST, so her book and subject matter can be discussed. First question, Carla: Where did you come up with the name for the book?
MsgId: *emedia(9)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:02:07 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Thanks for inviting me Paulette :-) I was driving over the Golden Gate bridge, and the name just came to me.
MsgId: *emedia(14)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:06:44 EST 1996
From: guest At: 204.62.128.214
Why on the bridge?
MsgId: *emedia(16)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:07:57 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
I love driving over bridges. Something about being surrounded with water and air, my mind just starts reeling.
MsgId: *emedia(15)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:06:59 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.135
I'd like to know more about the magazine you'd worked on, called bOING bOING. Can you get into more background about what it was about--and, is it still available in print or online?
MsgId: *emedia(18)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:10:35 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Mark Frauenfelder (from Wired) and I started it in 1989 as a zine that covered "cyberculture" (which wasn't a common term back then). Now we cover "pop culture for the techno savvy."
MsgId: *emedia(27)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:14:49 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.135
Why did you want to write "Net Chick?"
MsgId: *emedia(28)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:15:58 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
I wrote Net Chick because I wanted a book that listed interesting, "femme" sites and of all the hundreds of computer books out there, couldn't find one that focused on women. At first I was only going to list sites, but then it turned into this whole exporation of an online culture that was just beginning to take form.By exploration I mean, I interviewed many fascinating women who have helped shape the online world, and had a couple of people write essays about online romance and other fun topics.
MsgId: *emedia(33)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:19:29 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.135
Yeah. "Net Chick" is really well-written--it's certainly not your typical reference book, with entries listed and a very dry description of the subject to follow. How long did it take you to gather all the information for the book?
MsgId: *emedia(34)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:20:36 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Thanks Paulette :-) The whole thing, including research, took 3 1/2 months (the publishers wanted it that way!).
MsgId: *emedia(35)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:22:31 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.165
Now, getting into the book itself: the most interesting segment in the cyberromance section is how the editors of "Sassy" and "Wired" met and romanced and married through the 'net. Has anything like that happened to you, or to anyone else you know?
MsgId: *emedia(36)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:24:21 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Not to me (I'm with Mark Fruaenfelder :-) But yes! I even know someone who "courted" a woman online for several months and when they finally met f2f they got married 3 days later; and I know other couples who are still in the romantic gaga online stage.
MsgId: *emedia(40)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:27:35 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.145
How did you get Marjorie Ingall (Sassy) to write the story for "Net Chick?" And what did Jonathan (Wired) have to say about their story? Could you also summarize their romance story?
MsgId: *emedia(42)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:28:54 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Well, I knew both Jonathan and Marjorie before they started Net dating. And Marjorie was living in New York at the time. She came to San Francisco to visit with friends who worked at Wired, met Jonathan, and then went back to NY. They then started emailing each other, but Jonathan had another girlfriend at the time, so they were trying to keep it casual (although later they admit to each other that there were fireworks from the very first nanosecond). Finally things got to intense, they confessed their strong feelings for each other (all of this online), Jonathan broke up with the other girl, and Marjorie moved to San Francisco, and in with Jonathan!
MsgId: *emedia(46)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:35:52 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.165
Can online romance be a good way for women to learn to be more confident--even if the affair is a failure or just for fun? Has anyone you know ever had a really bad experience from an online affair (the type Ann Landers decries as ruining marriages across the nation)?
MsgId: *emedia(47)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:37:37 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Just one person I know had an online romance going, and then when they met, the guy didn't like the woman I know because of her looks. It wasn't a nice situation. But then at the top of my head I can think of at least 4 successful online relationships. As for confidence, it may be a good way to build a bit of it up, especially for people who are better with writing, but you need real life experience to make an online relationship really work. Because the relationship will almost always end up in the third dimension.oh, and I think Ann Landers is a bit hysterical, but I also have heard of online relationships ruining marriages. I even know of a marriage that was ruined by a telemarketer.
MsgId: *emedia(53)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:46:00 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.165
And, love leads into sex. Especially since "cybersex" is the first chapter in "Net Chick." The interview with Lisa Palac (Future Sex editor) is very interesting, considering that she used to be an anti-porn feminist. Do you know how many cybersex sites are run by women?
MsgId: *emedia(54)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:48:19 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
I don't know how many cybersex sites are run by women - EVERY DAY new sites are put up by women, and men of course :-) and it's nearly impossible to keep track.Yeah, I love it when an anti-sex feminist evolves into a pro-sex feminist! Lisa Palac is great.
MsgId: *emedia(57)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:52:41 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.135
Lisa Palac admits that, during the '80s, she was very much an anti-porn feminist. She describes how because she hadn't had exposure to pornography, she was very much against it. but once she became used to seeing more porn, she become more interested in sex, and eventually worked with "On Our Backs" and "Future Sex." But Palac made her conversion through watching pornography films. Do you think cybersex sites would help other anti-porn feminists learn more about pornography, or should they just watch porn films, too?
MsgId: *emedia(59)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:53:29 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Woops, above I meant "anti-porn"
MsgId: *emedia(60)
Date: Mon Oct 28 21:57:01 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Well, so far I haven't seen anything on the Net that would compare to porn films, but also you never know where a woman - or anyone - gets information that is going to change their mind or make a difference in their lives, whether you're talking about porn, abortion rights, politics, etc. Also, most anti-porn feminists would probably become angrier after watching a porn film because they're already stuck in that mind set. Lisa Palac is an exception to the rule.
MsgId: *emedia(63)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:01:22 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.145
I also wanted to discuss your "style" section in "Net Chick." How does shopping, fashion, and astrology sites empower women, especially the cyberwoman? Not just with the fetish shops online, but other, more ordinary areas?
MsgId: *emedia(64)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:06:09 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Pleasure is very empowering, and the fact that women are now getting online, to go whereever they want, whether its for entertainment or more serious reasons, is empowering. We aren't ignorant of machines anymore! That's empowering.
MsgId: *emedia(65)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:07:05 EST 1996
From: guest At: 206.15.69.59
Carla, I think you're the coolest modem grrrl around. Are you single?
MsgId: *emedia(66)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:07:21 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
You know that more women are getting online when you notice the abundance of "style" sites that are now on the Web.
MsgId: *emedia(67)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:08:11 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Hey, who's that riot nrrrd talking to me! :-)
MsgId: *emedia(68)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:09:03 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.165
True--very true! :-> Your question to one of the "Stylin'" segment's subjects, Magdalen, about how fashion works on the web was a good one. But do you think fashion is a viable topic on the 'net? Isn't fashion a bit too physical for something like the web?
MsgId: *emedia(69)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:11:40 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
If something as physical as sex and romance work on the Net, by all means, so does fashion! Actually, I now have a friend who designs clothes for avatars, so I think fashion is only becoming more prominent in the virual world. I predict that a lot of well-know fashion designers are going to start designing fashions for avatars.
MsgId: *emedia(71)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:13:58 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.145
I also wanted to know: why no discussion of Barbie in "Stylin'"? I may be going against "conventional" grrrl-feminist thought, but Barbie may be a good example of a strong woman that young girls have in a toy....
MsgId: *emedia(72)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:16:49 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Oh, but I DO mention Barbie! Except I put her in the Entertainment section. I talk about the sites that dress her up in fetish wear and biker clothes and create a new persona for her. Gosh, maybe that should have been in the style section!
MsgId: *emedia(73)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:20:17 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.135
And maybe I would've caught it! I know you mentioned Barbie in the intro pages to "Net Chick," however. But, with all the fashion, sex, love and relationships, health, media, arts and sports you discuss for the net chick in "Net Chick," you don't discuss any of the political websites available! Did you want to avoid politics?
MsgId: *emedia(74)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:23:06 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Well, the main reason I didn't get into politics is because it's a topic I'm not very well-versed in. But there are some good site out there, like www.eff.org and www.netizen.com. I did have a section on women's issues however :-) ga
MsgId: *emedia(78)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:24:44 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.145
Something else, too, I should've asked at the beginning of the session: How did you become a cyber-feminist? And, do you think cyberspace is doing more to empower women than something like NOW or the Nat'l Coalition of 100 Black Women?
MsgId: *emedia(79)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:29:35 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Well, the Net is infinitely more broad than an organization like NOW, which has a specific agenda, so they can't be compared. Those orgs do have sites on the web, and the Net is an important communications tool that can be used to bring special interest groups together.
MsgId: *emedia(81)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:30:59 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.145
Yeah. I read some of that, in the "You've Got the Power!" section. I also read the section about the world's first hacker--who happened to be a woman! Can you give a summary about Ada Lovelace? How did you get the information on her?
MsgId: *emedia(82)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:33:52 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Oh, I forgot to answer the cyber-feminist part of your question... WEll, I wouldn't consider myself a cyber-feminist, but rather a woman interested in using media to learn and communicate with people of all genders. I find the Net and zines to be two of the best mediums for this purpose.I am fascinated with Ada Lovelace! I first read about her in Bruce Sterling's "Difference Engine," where she was fictionalized. And then I met Betty Toole, who wrote a book on Ada Lovelace that was quite interesting. Lovelace is everything I love in a woman: highly intelligent, independent, sexy, poetic, strong, and vulnerable. And to think she was programming in the 1800s.
MsgId: *emedia(85)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:40:34 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.165
Reading about Ada Lovelace reminded me very much of Marie Curie, who also had to marry in order to be able to carry out her scientific research. Where's the best site out there for studying women's history? Or is that something for Reva Basch to find out? :-)
MsgId: *emedia(86)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:43:23 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Gosh, Reva probably could help me on this one - Something I'll have to tackle a search engine with tomorrow :-)
MsgId: *emedia(89)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:47:18 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.231.145
Reva Basch, by the way, is a cyberarian (cyber-librarian) which Carla Sinclair features in "Net Chick." Basch makes a lot more money doing research for other people through the 'net in a week than I make ... Anyway, Carla: In going through "Net Chick," you have an excerpt from an online discussion about the type of feminist a cybergrrrl can be: A Wonderbra, bra-burning, or sports-bra kind of woman. Which would you describe yourself as being?
MsgId: *emedia(90)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:50:10 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
tee hee :-) Well, I used to be a braless type of gal (remnants of the '70s) but now, with so many pretty colors at Victoria's secrets, I guess I'm a push-up kind of gal. The beauty is that we have a choice!And then there's the magic 8 bra... the bra who answers all of your questions... (at my site :-)
MsgId: *emedia(93)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:56:28 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Well, just a few minutes to 8 (pst) Anything else we should talk about??
MsgId: *emedia(95)
Date: Mon Oct 28 22:57:18 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.233.33
Sorry! My computer just went offline for a few minutes. But that leaves me with only two more questions I can ask you, Carla :-(. Which male-dominated 'netsite have you found is the most grrrl-friendly?
MsgId: *emedia(96)
Date: Mon Oct 28 23:00:15 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.233.33
What's the worst so-called "cyber-femme" site you've seen out there?
MsgId: *emedia(97)
Date: Mon Oct 28 23:01:00 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
ooo, that's a tough question, because if I feel a site is too male-dominated, I don't hang around. I like sites that have both male and female voices. BUT... never mind! I just lost my last message and it was a long one! yikes, and we're running out of time!!While I'm waiting for you I'll just say that it has been rumored that cupcake.com, whick is very feminine in tone and content and is said to be run by Brianna, a woman, might actually be run by a guy (at least that's what they told an editor friend of mine) So if that's true, then cupcake is the most femme site that is male dominated!
MsgId: *emedia(100)
Date: Mon Oct 28 23:06:22 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.233.17
Yes! That's exactly how I felt about my machine a few minutes ago. But I don't want to keep you on any longer than planned, Carla. But thanks for appearing tonight, to discuss your latest title, "Net Chick" A Smart-Girl Guide to the Wired World," as well as about cyber-feminism and grrrls' life in general! Next week on E-Media: Imax filmmaker Bayley Silleck discusses his latest project for the 3-D cinematic experience.
MsgId: *emedia(101)
Date: Mon Oct 28 23:06:28 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
ga...
MsgId: *emedia(102)
Date: Mon Oct 28 23:07:50 EST 1996
From: carla At: 204.62.128.213
Well Paulette, I hate to rush, but I have a hot Moroccan dinner waiting for me (which I get to eat with my fingers :-) So I better go...But I wanted to thank you for a fun conversation!
MsgId: *emedia(104)
Date: Mon Oct 28 23:08:30 EST 1996
From: Paulette At: 152.163.233.33
Good night!
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