Prime Time Replay:
Chris Rutkowski
on Canadian UFOlogy
MsgId: *high_strangeness(118)
Date: Tue Dec 9 21:58:06 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Welcome to High Strangeness! Our previously scheduled guest, Bob Pratt, had to cancel for health reasons. We hope to have him online soon. In the meantime, Chris Rutkowski of Canada has agreed to pinch hit. An astronomy educator and science writer, Chris is intimately involved with Canadian ufology. Welcome, Chris! I understand Canadian ufologists have recently released their annual report. Before we go into specifics, could you tell us who Canadian ufologists are?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(122)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:00:31 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Well, like the USA, there are Canadian UFO researchers in almost all provinces. In BC, there is a group called UFO*BC, while on the east coast, Chris Styles in investigating the Shag Harbour crash of 1967. One of the better-known to online UFO buffs is Errol Bruce-Knapp, who runs UFO Updates, a listserv.Oh, BTW, I met Bob Pratt back in 1975, when he was a reporter with the National Enquirer. He was up in Canada investigating a major UFO flap in Manitoba.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(126)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:02:58 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
What do we see in Canada in terms of UFOs? Are reports basically similar to those reported in the US?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(127)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:04:09 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Actually, the annual Canadian survey of UFO activity isn't due out until about February of March of 1998. But we *did* release the results of a nationwide poll which asked many questions about UFOs.Yes, Canadian UFO reports are basically the same as any other country, including the USA. There are trends in the type of UFO, the time of day seen, the colors, shapes, etc. This tells us that UFOs are a global phenomenon. There may be waves and local flaps here and there, but the sightings occur in virtually every country.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(131)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:06:29 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Could you summarize those findings for us, please.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(132)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:07:40 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
One of my specialties is case studies and investigations. I'm interested in understanding how UFOs are reports, by whom, where, and how they differ from case to case. What are the various characteristics?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(133)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:08:31 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Chris -- remember to use 'Pause While Typing'! Does Canada also report what we would think of as the "classical" abduction?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(134)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:08:57 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Yes, certainly. 78% of all Canadians believe in the existence of life elsewhere in the universe. But 9.6% say they have seen UFOs. In Canada, this translates into about 3 million people!OK, I'm pausing. :)
Yes, abductions are reported in Canada as well as any other region. In fact, one of the better collections of abduction case investigations is held by Graham Conway of UFO*BC. He began investigating and working with abductees in the late 1980s.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(136)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:10:53 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Are Canadian witnesses primarily rural or urban in nature?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(137)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:12:32 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Hmm. Good question. The demographics from this poll did not focus on that aspect. But in general, I would say that UFO reports *tend* to concentrate in population centres, so that there are *usually* more reported from cities rather than the open countryside. But it's the old adgae that "when a tree falls in the forest . . . " - there are more potential witnesses in a city, so that's where most of the sightings are.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(138)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:14:04 PST 1997
From: Benat2 At: 204.186.10.146
Chris;if i may call u chris;so approx. how much time per sighting [ppl sya its like 3 mins a ufo is sighted over the earth] from the report;whats the timespan per sighting?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(141)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:15:44 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
ben: The *average* duration of sighting is surprisingly long -- about half an hour! But this is because in the database there are sightings with durations of several hours (which turn out to be stars in most cases)
MsgId: *high_strangeness(140)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:15:36 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
By the same token, your classic Canadian cases, Langenburg, Michak, Shag Harbor, etc., hail from relatively isolated areas. Is there a "big city" case we haven't heard about?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(142)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:17:57 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
dennis: That's a good point. But we are talking about trends, not individual cases. Certainly the most unusual cases occur in remote areas. One of the most remarkable "city" cases took place in the very centre of Montreal about 5 years ago. A "clock-shaped" pattern of lights was seen initially by a group of witnesses sitting by a hotel rooftop pool!The Montreal case has been recreated on Unsolved Mysteries or Sightings (I forget which), and has not been explained satisfactorily.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(146)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:20:24 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
How do Canadian abduction cases stack up with their American counterparts?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(148)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:22:48 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
I think Canadian abductions are highly analgous to those elsewhere. One of the better abduction investigators, David Gotlib, only left Toronto a few years ago. Before that, he was instrumental at the MIT conference on abductions in delinating a set of standards for abduction investigations. His case descriptions show a definite need for further research.I've been working with abductees myself since 1988, when the first one presented himself to me following one of my talks. Since then, I have worked with many abductees, and their experiences are similar to others, with a few minor differences.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(147)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:20:59 PST 1997
From: Benat2 At: 204.186.10.146
uhhh . . . do u have a copy of the report online?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(149)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:23:17 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
ben: The Poll?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(150)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:24:30 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Chris, we're supposed to be the only ones online but I see we have a couple of visitors. If you have the URL for the Canadian report handy, please go ahead and post it.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(155)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:27:10 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
The *poll* is not available online yet, unfortunately. The annual survey of sightings is available each spring at various sites. My own page is: www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7998. A more comprehensive collection of reports and cases and surveys is at: ftp.eskimo.com/u/r/rmrice/ufo/
MsgId: *high_strangeness(154)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:27:01 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
When you say "highly analogous" are you referring to small gray beings with large,black eyes which ultimately result in a sexual encounter leading to hybrid babies?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(156)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:28:55 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Dennis: No, not necessarily. One of the major differences I find is that many entities are *not* grey, sometimes have *round* eyes and have other features not reported in "classic" abductions.And, curiously, I have only a few cases on file where "hybrid babies" were described. Sexual encounters, yes, but not necessarily the babies.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(157)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:29:11 PST 1997
From: magus At: 204.181.96.57
Chris . . . have you knoticed any trends, changes, or unsual commonalities over the last few years as opposed to previous years tha would not be explained by media influence
MsgId: *high_strangeness(159)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:31:23 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
So what do you make of these differences? Is it conceivable that one species of Greys has been assigned Canadians to abduct and another Americans?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(161)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:33:06 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Dennis: As for commonalities, I don't think so. What I *have* noticed is that there is a greater *willingness* on the part of people to instantly believe UFO sightings are mysterious, instead of using or applying some dash of salt. I think the media *is* influencing this to some extent.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(160)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:33:04 PST 1997
From: guest At: 130.179.152.86
How common is the use of hypnosis by Canadian groups to "uncover" abductions?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(162)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:34:59 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
I'll answer "guest" first. One of Dr. Gotlib's most important practices was *not* to use hypnosis in abduction cases. In fact, he advised *against* it in all but a small percentage of cases. But abduction researchers vary in approach. There are some who use it at first blush.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(165)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:37:22 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Now as for your question, Dennis . . . I suppose it's *possible* that there are different aliens in different countries, but I think it's just as possible that there are cultural trends at work. I also am not convinced that the "typical" grey alien is as prevanet as is generally thought. I think it's certainly more *popular* and is the most *advocated* by some researchers, but from *my* investigations, it's not that way, and I have heard from other researchers that this may be the case.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(164)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:36:23 PST 1997
From: guest At: 130.179.152.86
Has UFO BC adopted any form of ethical code of conduct with respect to using hypnosis?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(166)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:38:33 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
I am not sure whether or not Graham Conway (the UFO*BC abduction expert) follows the proposed code of ethics regarding abduction investigations. I would hope he does.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(167)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:38:55 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
What's the perceived Canadian view of government involvement with the UFO issue? Are your compatriots as paranoid as their American counterparts?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(168)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:40:37 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
More than 57 % of Canadians believe there is a government cover-up of some kind. Older people tend not to believe in a cover-up. But in general, I would say the the cover-up theory is very popular.Now, Canadian military and government operate a bit differently than the USA. We have local police in cities, but provincial police are for the most part RCMP, which is a *national* police force. Above them is the CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Service) and recently, an equivalent of the AMerican NSA, called the CSE (Communications Security Establishment)
MsgId: *high_strangeness(169)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:40:41 PST 1997
From: guest At: 206.31.113.166
Hypnosis is a tool but not a proof on abduction cases. There is a lot of danger in hypnosis. There are abductions "experts" using only hypnosis in manny cases.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(170)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:42:50 PST 1997
From: guest At: 130.179.152.86
Has public opinion in the belief of UFOs as potentially alien spacecraft risen over the years?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(173)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:44:41 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
guest: Actually, Dennis is in a better position to note the change in belief in UFOs as aliens. His book, "50 Years of UFOs," came out this summer, and it has a chapter in it about polls regarding UFOs.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(174)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:45:35 PST 1997
From: guest At: 130.179.152.86
actually I was refering to Canadian public opinion :-)
MsgId: *high_strangeness(172)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:44:15 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
By way of our "guest's" question, how unified is Canadian ufology? Is it as fractious as its American counterpart, or merely more so? Is there a central reporting agency?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(175)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:46:45 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Dennis: OK, I'll answer that one carefully. : ) Canadian ufology is highly fractured. MUFON Canada, for example, exists, but most active Canadian UFO researchers are independent of it. Groups come and go, and memberships wax and wane. There is essentially *one* active UFO research group per province (10)guest: Canadian pollsters haven't asked about UFos or belief in the ETH very regularly, so that really can't be answered, unfortunately.
In order to compile the annual Canadian UFO survey, I rely on the generosity of Canadian researchers to openly share and contribute their case data. As you might expect, not everyone cooperates. It would be *nice* to have a central reporting agency, but perhaps not realistic.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(177)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:48:35 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Does Canada have an equivalent of our own FOIA -- Freedom of Information Act? And can it be applied to UFO cases?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(181)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:51:41 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Dennis: Yes, the Canadian equivalent of the FOIA is the AI (Access to Information), which allows a great deal of files to be accessible. Another thing is that *all* Canadian government UFO files are available to the *public* at the National Library in Ottawa. For example, the infamous Wilbert Smith MJ-12 document was found in the *Canadian* archives. (He was Canadian)<
MsgId: *high_strangeness(183)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:53:38 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Does that put Canada in the same category as the US? In other words, UFO investigation is purely a thing of the past?
MsgId: *high_strangeness(184)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:53:48 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
Can copies of the log of this chat be made available?Yes. The Canadian government *officially* announced it was no longer collecting UFO reports in August 1995 (quite recently). BUT there are indications that the collection is still taking place. I should note that to *date*, there are about 150 Canadian UFO reports in our database for 1997 alone. The yearly average is a bit over 200. We still have yet to hear from many researchers, so there may actually be *more* cases this year than others.
One of the better cases tool place in Winnipeg on November 17, at 2:30 am. A witness observed a huge triangular UFO with many small lights on its surface. Her drawing of it is very detailed and is very puzzling. (Wish I had a scanner handy)<
MsgId: *high_strangeness(187)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:58:35 PST 1997
From: Dennis At: 206.127.5.14
Yes, Chris, they certainly can. Go back to history and select something like 100, then Save. Otherwise, you'll be saving only the last five Q&A's. In the meantime, thanks very much for joining us! Good night! For High Strangeness this has been Dennis Stacy.
MsgId: *high_strangeness(189)
Date: Tue Dec 9 22:59:34 PST 1997
From: crut At: 130.179.248.147
OK, Dennis! Thanks for inviting me! Hope I've been informative!
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