Prime Time Replay:
Mark Goulston
on Overcoming Self-Defeating Behavior
MsgId: *infinities(6)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:03:28 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 153.34.92.221
Welcome to Infinities. Our guest tonight is Dr. Mark Goulston. Dr. Goulston is an Ass't Clinical Professor at UCLA's Neuropsychiatric Institute. Trained at Berkeley, Boston University, the Menninger Foundation and UCLA, Dr. Goulston also has a private practice based in Santa Monica, CA. He recently authored an intriguing new book on overcoming your self-defeating behaviors, titled "Get Out of Your Own Way." Suicide, rage and violence are his other areas of expertise. He was a consultant to and witness for the prosecution in the OJ Simpson trial. Welcome Dr. Mark. We have so much to talk about tonight, but let's start with the book -- what was your goal, what did you hope to achieve with this venture?
MsgId: *infinities(17)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:18:52 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
I'm glad to be joining Omni tonight to discuss Overcoming Self-Defeating Behavior. I wrote the book to prevent the biggest tragedy in life. That is waking up at the end of your life and discovering that your life has been mediocre and that you did it to yourself by getting in your own way. Self-Defeating Behavior is what happens when we get in our own way. It's tough to overcome because all self-defeating behavior is coping behavior. It works at first to help us feel better but then screws us up in the long run.
MsgId: *infinities(21)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:24:00 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
You talk about many things in the book, from procrastination, to anger, holding a grudge and becoming obsessive. What are the three most common ways we defeat ourselves?
MsgId: *infinities(23)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:28:00 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
The top three are: 1) Procrastination; 2) Not following through; and 3) Not learning from our mistakes.Procrastination actually is caused not by laziness or lack of self-discipline, but by loneliness. For instance, ajs, if you were procrastinating about doing something that was important and you told me to call you tomorrow and to not take "no" for an answer and to hold you to your commitment to take action, don't you think there would be a good chance of your taking action if only to honor my effort? This is why AA works, not because of 12 steps, but because of the fellowship and of the sponsors whose caring you want to honor by staying sober.
MsgId: *infinities(30)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:34:22 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
Ahhh yes, it makes sense. And what about not following through?
MsgId: *infinities(31)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:36:50 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
Actually it's similar. You see, self-defeating behavior takes place to help you deal with reducing tension when you can't calm yourself. Think of someone who believed in you in your life when you didn't believe in yourself. Wouldn't you want to honor that person's caring if you could? By thinking of that person, and feeling less alone, it can give you the courage to not give into a self-defeating behavior and instead of shooting from the hip and doing what makes you feel better for now, you can shoot from your head and do the right thing that will make you feel better in the long run. I dedicated my book to a man who believed in me when I didn't believe in myself so each time I feel tense and am tempted to do whatever will give me relief, I think of him up in the sky (he died 3 years ago) believing in me and telling me to do the right thing, not the easy thing. His kindness and caring I have tried to carry over into my book. Many readers have told me that they find my book is both easy to read and use, but more importantly they feel as if I am talking with them not at them. I have tried to help readers feel less alone in their struggles to not give into self-defeating behaviors. I believe in my readers and in their desire to overcome the negativity in their live. For instance, I think a skeptic and cynic are people who once trusted and believed, but then were hurt or betrayed. But inside most skeptics and cynics is still an ache to trust and believe, but to do it safely without the fear of being hurt or betrayed. Do you agree?
MsgId: *infinities(43)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:52:57 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
Absolutely. But once someone has sunk to their lowest point, how do they pull themselves back up into the world of the trusting -- and living?
MsgId: *infinities(44)
Date: Sun Mar 30 22:55:03 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
The key is to find people who share your particular pain, because they know how bad it hurts and you can't think to yourself, "It's easy for them to say, they haven't gone through it." If for instance you have had a mastectomy and go to a mastectomy support group, you can't say they don't know your pain. Instead you drop your victim role and reach out and ask them, "How did you make it through the hell of it all?" But people are very resistant to using these kinds of groups of shared pain and suffering. They tend to reach out to people who are "stronger" but then resist the help because they feel so envious of that stronger person not being in hell.
MsgId: *infinities(48)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:00:34 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
I've gotten several questions here about what tips you may have on how to reduce the tension and believe in oneself during the trying moments of daily life?
MsgId: *infinities(51)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:03:23 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
I'd suggest to your viewers to think of those people who really cared about them, and think of their kind words and deep belief in you to get your through the tough times.
MsgId: *infinities(53)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:04:11 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
Oh, and they might want to take a look at my book, GET OUT OF YOUR OWN WAY.
MsgId: *infinities(52)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:04:01 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
Yes, it published by Perigee and can be found in the OMNI Bookstore.I've gotten numerous other inquiries about the recent suicide of the 39 Heaven's Gate cultists. Since suicide is an area of your expertise, how were these suicides different from the norm? Can you stay to answer just a couple of more questions?
MsgId: *infinities(56)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:07:10 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
Sure, I'd be happy to stay. The Heaven Gate suicides were different in that they were not done to get out of pain, but to truly go to a better place. They packed their bags, they laid down. Very peaceful stuff. What's unfortunate is that they may have thought they were going to find peace, but they were probably the pawns of Michael Applewhite's paranoia about being exposed in some way. You see most men kill themselves to avoid some awful humiliation.
MsgId: *infinities(60)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:11:20 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
What about the alien aspect? Is this a sign of the times -- are we all so much in each other's way that we're looking to aliens to save us from ourselves?
MsgId: *infinities(61)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:12:24 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
I think it's a very sad commentary on the ache we all have to believe and belong and not being able to find anything to believe in that doesn't let you down or to belong to that doesn't kick you out. When you have nothing or nobody to believe in including yourself and you have no place where you feel you belong, you can be vulnerable to believing in such wierd things. Let he who has nothing to believe in and no place to belong say: "It could never happen to me."
MsgId: *infinities(65)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:16:31 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
So many people continue to ask, 'How could this happen?' Is the world really becoming a more violent place?
MsgId: *infinities(66)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:18:46 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
I believe that what is happening is that we are all losing our empathy towards each other. It's actually empathy that keeps you from hurting others. If you put yourself in someone else's shoes and feelings, you can't be angry at the same time. But if you lose your empathy for others and see them as things without feelings and as obstacles to your getting what you want, it's very easy to treat them like a thing and step on them if they get in your way.
MsgId: *infinities(70)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:21:55 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
So the thing we should all walk out the door with tomorrow morning is a compassion, a willingness to put ourselves in the other person's shoes, so to speak?
MsgId: *infinities(71)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:23:54 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
Absolutely. In fact the simplest way to stop and turn around any relationship problem you are having is to stop yourself in the middle of being defensive and ask yourself "What's it like for the other person right now?" Just asking the question will stop your defensiveness and they will not feel attacked by you and then they can stop their defensiveness.
MsgId: *infinities(73)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:25:57 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
We've had a few people inquire about OJ -- I'll edit them into one question . . . Do you have any bottom line thoughts about OJ and the Trial of the Century? Maybe -- what you learned from the process?
MsgId: *infinities(76)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:29:42 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
I have learned several lessons: 1) As right as you think you are is as wrong as you can turn out to be; 2) When someone you love is murdered, justice stops the suffering, but nothing stops the pain; 3) The greatest challenge of the 21st century will be how to restore trust to a "Don't Trust Anybody World."
MsgId: *infinities(79)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:33:07 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
And what a challenge that is . . . Dr. Mark -- thank you so much for being with us tonight -- and thank you for 'going into overtime' . . .
MsgId: *infinities(82)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:34:46 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
I would like to leave your viewers with the following: If you're a thoughtful person and you're not making the world better, you're making it worse. Take care of yourselves. Never give up on yourselves or anyone you love.
MsgId: *infinities(85)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:36:59 PST 1997
From: ajs_rayl At: 207.211.62.136
Good advice, Dr. Thank you again. For tonight. And for a most straight-forward and helpful book. Goodnight everyone - and thanks for joining us tonight.
MsgId: *infinities(87)
Date: Sun Mar 30 23:37:54 PST 1997
From: Dr_Mark At: 153.34.92.221
My pleasure, thank you for having me and thank your viewers for joining us.
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