Prime Time Replay:
David H. Freedman and Charles C. Mann
Authors of At Large: The Strange Case
of the World's Biggest Internet Invasion
MsgId: *infinities(36)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:57:10 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
Welcome to OMNI Infinities Chat! Tonight we welcome the David H. Freedman and Charles C. Mann, co-authors of "At LARGE: The Strange Case of the World's Biggest Internet Invasion" (Simon & Schuster, 1997), a chilling, engrossing book that reads like a mystery novel but is even more frightening because the story is true.Before we begin chatting, I'd like to introduce our author-guests by telling our audience a little about their backgrounds.
MsgId: *infinities(38)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:58:12 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Hi Omni, and guests.
MsgId: *infinities(39)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:58:13 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
David H. Freedman, founding editor of Inc. Online and former editor of Inc. Technology, is a contributing editor at Discover magazine and Forbes ASAP, and has been a regular contributor to Science, CIO, and Self magazines in addition to writing for Wired, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, and the Harvard Business Review. His first book, "BRAINMAKERS" (also from Simon & Schuster), deals with the quest to create computers that mimic human thought.Charles C. Mann is a contributing editor of The Atlantic Monthly and Science magazine and has been published in The New York Times, Smithsonian and Discover magazine. He has written for TV and CD-ROMs and co-authored four books including "THE SECOND CREATION" (about particle physics), "NOAH'S CHOICE" (about biodiversity) and "THE ASPIRIN WARS."
MsgId: *infinities(41)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:58:52 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
Gentlemen, thank you for joining us for Infinities Chat tonight.
MsgId: *infinities(42)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:59:32 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Thanks for having us. Charles has some network problems, but he's working on it
MsgId: *infinities(43)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:00:27 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
Must be something on the 'Net... I was having problems too. :)
MsgId: *infinities(45)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:00:51 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Well, Charles seems to be getting close, I have him on the phone. Shall we get started?
MsgId: *infinities(46)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:00:54 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Hi, I appear to be here.
MsgId: *infinities(47)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:01:22 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
OK, the gang's all here.
MsgId: *infinities(48)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:01:59 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
Okay, let's proceed. :)
MsgId: *infinities(49)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:02:29 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Would you like me to say a little about our story?
MsgId: *infinities(51)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:03:24 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
This book is an amazing, often nearly incredible report, that staggers the imagination. As you take the reader through the labyrinths of the cyberworld to tell how a cracker nicknamed "Phantom Dialer" broke into corporate, governmental, university, military and nuclear weapons research facility computers, the reader has to ask, "Why have I not heard of this person before?"
MsgId: *infinities(52)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:03:33 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
The FBI and everyone else involved hushed up the case. We sort of stumbled on it. We had to track down the perp, the victims, the law, and everyone else involved, and pretty much drag the details out of the them (actually the cracker himself, "PhantomD," was very cooperative).
MsgId: *infinities(55)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:05:26 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
The character who used ID such as Phantom Dialer (PhantomD), InfoMaster, etc., is called "Matt Singer" in your book, but this is not his real name. Why have you opted to provide him a shield of privacy?
MsgId: *infinities(58)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:06:04 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Because we wanted to spare his family the additional burdens of media exposure.
MsgId: *infinities(56)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:05:26 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Our story: In 1992, a cracker hit over a thousand sites, and when the FBI finally tracked him down, they were stunned to find a not very skilled person at the wheel.
MsgId: *infinities(57)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:05:35 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
The scary thing is that this scenario could easily happen again.
MsgId: *infinities(59)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:06:17 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
"over a thousand sites" ? That's astounding!
MsgId: *infinities(60)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:06:35 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
It may have been as many as 2 thousand.
MsgId: *infinities(61)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:06:52 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
He went through the Internet like a one man ant army, knocking off site after site.
MsgId: *infinities(62)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:08:04 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
You've said that the circumstances of your happening upon this story were weird, but the story itself was even more weird. To me, it sounds nearly terrifying because it sounds as though you're saying that "Matt Singer" could get through any security system, any protection method, anywhere, any time. Was there any system he could NOT crack?
MsgId: *infinities(63)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:08:10 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
The message, if you want to put it that way, is that the Internet is extremely easy to break into. And this will be a growing problem.No, He got into everything he tried, but this was not because he was a genius, but because security everywhere is terrible.
MsgId: *infinities(65)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:09:37 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.166.27.156
What kinds of programs can hackers like "Matt" use to gain access to so many different places?
MsgId: *infinities(66)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:10:21 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
There are many. Two of the most effective and widespread are crack and rootkit, available throughout the web and elsewhere.
MsgId: *infinities(67)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:10:33 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
It is easy to find these tools -- just look for them on AltaVista or Hotbot.
MsgId: *infinities(68)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:12:31 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
These tools allow anyone, even people with virtually no unix or programming skills, to break into a variety of systems.
MsgId: *infinities(69)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:12:53 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
To use RootKit, for example, all you need to do is to know how to type the word "make" at the prompt -- and it will install 6 trojan horses and wipe out all traces of its meddling for you.
MsgId: *infinities(70)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:14:03 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
There are of course many terrific security tools to combat such cracker programs, but crackers tend to be better about swapping them and making them available than most sysadmins are.
MsgId: *infinities(73)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:14:52 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Adding to this is the fact that the FBI is culturally out of whack with this scene -- they are supposed to be kicking down doors, not sitting at keyboards. In fact, computer security is career death to agents -- obviously, they can't take it seriously.
MsgId: *infinities(74)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:15:50 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
This problem is going to get bigger and bigger as more career criminals start to get into cracking, taking over from the amateurs
MsgId: *infinities(75)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:16:17 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
And everything is exacerbated by the low level of security. Did you see the story where Phiber Optik got half the world to email him passwords the other day?
MsgId: *infinities(76)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:16:48 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Was that the one with the two popular web sites?
MsgId: *infinities(77)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:17:09 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
It seems as if every other day another major security bug has been found, and another major site has been hit. Meanwhile, the vast majority of break-ins are not reported. We're just hearing about the tip of the iceberg.
MsgId: *infinities(78)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:17:37 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Was that the one with the two popular web sites? This past Friday (July 11), a news report said users of two of the World Wide Web's most popular sites were jolted by anonymous emails that said their credit card numbers had been obtained from ESPN Sportzone and NBA.com. To prove the claim, the sender, self-identified as "an anonymous organization seeking to make the Internet a safe place for the consumer to do business," included in each email the last 8 digits of the recipient's credit card number. Fortunately, none of those cards has been misused, the Associated Press report said, but the operator of both sites (Starwave Corp.) advised all customers to contact their credit card companies. Did you encounter anything like this in researching your book?
MsgId: *infinities(81)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:19:54 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
No, that wasn't the one we were talking about. The one you're talking about is pretty murky at this point, and looks like more of a conventional break-in and theft.The one we're talking about is where a cracker was hired to test a site, issued a command, and the command was broadcast the entire internet
MsgId: *infinities(83)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:20:32 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
In a way, we've been lucky, because a lot of very important stuff is still not on the web (hospital databases, for example). But as more and more of society piles onto the Net, and as criminals eventually wise up to what's there, the possibilities are impressive.
MsgId: *infinities(84)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:20:40 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_2_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
There was *another* one, then? =:o
MsgId: *infinities(85)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:21:14 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Yes, 2 different things. It's almost an every day thing now, that another one hits the news.Bear in mind that the cracker in our book was active for 2 years and hit over a thousand sites, and no one in the public every heard a word about it, until now.
MsgId: *infinities(87)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:22:05 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Security expert Dan Farmer told us you never hear about the realy good ones. Only the dullards are found out.
MsgId: *infinities(88)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:22:18 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_2_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
That raises the question: Is the danger from crackers like "Matt" greater for individuals or large entities such as corporations, universities, government agencies, etc.? Who's at greatest risk?
MsgId: *infinities(89)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:23:19 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Both. Individuals, because we are all part of large entities -- we all have bank accounts, for example.
MsgId: *infinities(90)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:23:26 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_2_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Why didn't the FBI go public with this case?
MsgId: *infinities(91)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:23:40 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
In general, more damage is done when large organizations are hit, because they hold information on so many people.
MsgId: *infinities(92)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:24:48 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
The FBI didn't go public with the case because the identity of the cracker was too disturbing -- he was essentially unconvictable, and for special reasons it might have been unjust to convict him.
MsgId: *infinities(94)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:25:45 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Hi. We're talking about our book, "At Large" about a big security incident.
MsgId: *infinities(95)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:25:53 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_2_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Hello guest, do you have a question for the authors of "AT LARGE?"
MsgId: *infinities(96)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:27:07 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Pending "guest's" question, may I ask you this: Did the FBI or any other agency attempt to block publication of your book?
MsgId: *infinities(97)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:27:28 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
PhantomD was an unusual individual. He is actually a great deal less skilled than the average cracker--and he got into over a thousand sites. While there was no direct effort to block publication, the federal prosecutor did threaten to continue w/prosecution, apparently because we were getting ready to go public. We didn't get much cooperation from the government once they realized our story was focused on PhantomD--a big embrassment to them.
MsgId: *infinities(100)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:29:45 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Do you mean they meant to prosecute PhantomD? And would it be safe to say that "Matt" has been stopped? That he is no longer a danger to the Internet community?
MsgId: *infinities(102)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:30:22 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
No, they thought that this case was too unusual to be the kind of precedent the governemnt wanted, and you can imagine what they wanted.
MsgId: *infinities(103)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:30:50 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
On the other hand, they hoped to keep the case quiet; once it went public, not prosecuting could be as big an embrassment as prosecuting.
MsgId: *infinities(104)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:30:59 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
I think it is safe to say that "Matt" has stopped. But of course the thousands of others like him have not.
MsgId: *infinities(105)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:31:26 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Many people don't understand how hackers can hurt them personally. Can you give some examples, please?
MsgId: *infinities(106)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:31:33 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Matt is not the big danger out there. He hit all the sites, but wasn't out to steal or wreck things. We have to fear the person who is truly out to do some harm.Crackers can of course get your credit card #'s. They can get into your personal e-mail. They could get into your bank account. They could change your business data.
MsgId: *infinities(108)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:32:50 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
The havoc that could cause is barely imaginable.
MsgId: *infinities(109)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:33:24 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
The most dangerous things are the aspects of computerization we hardly think about. For example, PhantomD broke into the system that controls the software for automatic braking systems in cars. Think about the effects -- in your car, if you want -- of having that tampered with.
MsgId: *infinities(110)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:34:04 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
When one considers everything that's stored in computers... medical records, driver's licence/insurance information, sales, products, patents... it's awesome.
MsgId: *infinities(111)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:34:37 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
PhantomD got into nuclear weapons labs. Fortunately, he wasn't a spy selling such info to terrorists. Otherwise, he could have ruined our whole day.
MsgId: *infinities(112)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:34:39 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Or consider if they got into hospital data bases. One guy in England tried to murder his wife by tampering with the record of her medication while she was in the hospital. An alert nurse happened to notice that the wrong drug was in the pipeline and saved her life.
MsgId: *infinities(113)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:35:30 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Yes, the biggest problem isn't so much that there are crackers, as much as it is that we've trust so much info and control to the Internet.
MsgId: *infinities(114)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:36:25 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
The level of safeguards is very low. It's as if we are all leaving our cars parked with the keys in and the engine running and the door unlocked.
MsgId: *infinities(115)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:36:49 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Would a person or company whose computer system has been broken into know it, or could it happen without your having a clue?
MsgId: *infinities(116)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:37:47 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Most don't know it. Estimates are that something like 80-90% of all breakins are undetected.
MsgId: *infinities(117)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:38:19 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
In fact, just to prove our point, we've broken into your computer while you were talking to us. We're reading your e-mail now. It's very interesting
MsgId: *infinities(118)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:39:04 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
LOL! :::peeking around room paranoically:::
MsgId: *infinities(119)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:39:42 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Is there any way to be 100 percent safe or hacker-proof when using your computer?
MsgId: *infinities(120)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:39:51 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Well that's just it. a cracker can be 10,000 miles away and commit these crimes. Pretty safe way to be a criminal
MsgId: *infinities(121)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:40:15 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Actually, since writing the book we've had some odd experinces with our own email. One guy found me immediately and told me who "matt singer" really is. He also rerouted his phone number to a sex club or something, just for fun.
MsgId: *infinities(122)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:40:30 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
No. The most important thing to understand about computer security is that the only safe computer is one that isn't attached to anything else, and even then someone can come in and steal it. There are good protections out there, but smart crackers are always working on new ways around them.
MsgId: *infinities(124)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:41:06 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Have either of you ever been hacked? Or computers at your work?
MsgId: *infinities(125)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:41:16 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Witness the continuting stream of new bugs announced every week
MsgId: *infinities(126)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:41:34 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
And everytime you update your system, you create the potential for new vulnerabilities.
MsgId: *infinities(127)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:41:40 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
And now, of course, the web has provided a whole new of offering entry to crackers.If I've been hacked, I don't know it. But I wouldn't be sure.
MsgId: *infinities(129)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:42:31 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Not really. But some crackers have found my email address awful fast and demonstrated what they could do.
MsgId: *infinities(130)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:43:03 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Short of unplugging our modems, what can we do to practice safe computing?
MsgId: *infinities(131)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:44:01 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
The three rules of simple safe computing are 1) use a good password; 2) use a good password; and 3) use a good password. For administrators, it's a bit more complex.
MsgId: *infinities(132)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:44:19 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
To a large extent you have to depend on your organization's sysadmins, and even on your colleagues, to practice safe computing. Even if you're good about it, it's all for nothing if they screw up.
MsgId: *infinities(133)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:44:55 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Firewalls are very useful, but are often misconfigured. And a misconfigured one may actually be worse than none, because you'll think you're safe.
MsgId: *infinities(134)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:45:11 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
And change passwords frequently?
MsgId: *infinities(135)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:45:35 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Firewall vendors often dare crackers to break in, and then trumpet the fact that none do. But this is misleading, becasue in the real world sysadmins rarely configure firewalls to be as secure as this.
MsgId: *infinities(137)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:46:26 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Yes, change passwords frequently. And never give them out to anyone, especially over the phone, no matter who they say they are. Everyone knows the common sense stuff, but crackers laugh at how easy it is to talk most people out of their passwords
MsgId: *infinities(140)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:47:07 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
It's astonishing how often people give their passwords out. PhantomD made a practice of trolling for email in which people sent other people their passwords -- you know, I'm gong on vacation so please check my email, here's my password.
MsgId: *infinities(138)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:46:39 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
For the folks who aren't familiar with these terms, could you tell our visitors what a sniffer program does?
MsgId: *infinities(141)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:47:41 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
A sniffer is secretly placed on a server somewhere to grab snippets of passing data and send it on to a cracker. The cracker can get passwords and credit card data, for example, this way.
MsgId: *infinities(142)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:47:57 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
In the first 3 mos. of 1994, th Dept of Energy computer security group estimated there were at least 100K sniffer incidents.
MsgId: *infinities(143)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:48:16 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
PhantomD managed to place a sniffer on the Internet backbone.
MsgId: *infinities(144)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:48:36 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Certainly on America Online and CompuServe, the warnings against revealing passwords don't seem to be as effective as the "phisher" messages.
MsgId: *infinities(145)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:49:16 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Yes, AOL has been hard hit. Of course its user base is unusually naive.
MsgId: *infinities(146)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:49:35 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
But if sniffers are able to do all that, why bother with trying to talk someone out of his password?
MsgId: *infinities(147)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:50:33 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Because sniffers, though simple, require some minimal level of computer skill -- equivalent to two weeks of an intro computing class, maybe. Talking somebody out of a password requires no skill.
MsgId: *infinities(148)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:51:04 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Good point! Where are the vulnerable points hackers use to access systems?
MsgId: *infinities(149)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:51:06 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
Also you need a password to start out. Then you can install a sniffer and get a bunch more.
MsgId: *infinities(150)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:51:27 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Also, sniffers are indiscriminate. If you want to target someone you're probably better off using other techniques.
MsgId: *infinities(151)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:51:54 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
On the Internet, you're as strong as the weakest link If any server between you and the cracker is poorly protected, the cracker can get you there. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of weakly protected servers, and crackers rarely have to look far. Remember, PhantomD never once encountered a system he couldnt' break into, and he wasn't skilled.
MsgId: *infinities(154)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:54:04 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Are these programs (sniffers and others that hackers/crackers use) available to just anyone? Or is there anything like a cyberworld equivalent of the Brady gun law that limits access?
MsgId: *infinities(156)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:55:10 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
There is no brady gun law for cyberspace.
MsgId: *infinities(157)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:55:35 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Part of the problem with protecting the Internet, is that the Internet's great usefulness is in its freedom. So who wants to start blocking access to programs?
MsgId: *infinities(158)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:55:35 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Before our time is up, what is the most important thing you'd like our visitors to know about your book or the story in it?
MsgId: *infinities(159)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:56:56 EDT 1997
From: Charles At: 205.246.4.45
A big point is that the internet is astonishingly and scarily easy to break into -- and that we worked very hard to make our book the most entertaining way possible to find out exactly why this is the case.
MsgId: *infinities(160)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:58:33 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
The Internet is a wonderful thing, but the price we pay for the great connectivity is the fact that it is vulnerable to people who want to take advantage of the openness.
MsgId: *infinities(161)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:58:55 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Gentlemen, unfortunately we've come to the end of our allotted time -- I say unfortunately because this has been a fascinating discussion. I'd like to thank you both for being here tonight -- and I also want to thank you for writing such an engrossing, amazing, incredibly, vivid and frightening report. I hope it serves as a wake-up call to all computer users.
MsgId: *infinities(162)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:59:18 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Thanks for having us.
MsgId: *infinities(163)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:59:37 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
Goodnight Mr. Freedman and Mr. Mann. Folks, be SURE to pick up your copy of "At Large" and read it soon - we've barely scratched the surface here tonight and if you use the Internet, you need to read this book.Be sure to join OMNI for Infinities Chat again next Sunday night and other OMNI Chats every night.
MsgId: *infinities(164)
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:59:42 EDT 1997
From: David_Freedman At: 24.128.33.82
Thanks to you, Madame Moderator, and to Omni. Charles says thanks, he's frozen out right now Good night.
MsgId: *infinities(167)
Date: Sun Jul 13 23:00:29 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator At: 152.163.204.6
It's been a pleasure... See you next time. :) Good night. And good night to the Frozen Charles, too.
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