Prime Time Replay:
Michael Swanwick
on his novel Jack Faust
MsgId: *omni_visions(1)
Date: Thu Sep 11 19:50:36 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Welcome to OmniVisions. Tonight at 10:00 PM EDT, our guest will be Michael Swanwick, whose latest book "Jack Faust" is in hardcover release from Avon. As usual, the show will take the form of an interview for about the first hour, and we'll open up to audience participation about 11:00 EDT. Join us!John Clute describes Michael Swanwick as "fiercely contemporary". His work, including "In the Drift" and the Nebula Award-winning "Stations of the Tide" (along with his short stories) have changed the way some people consider sf. We look forward to your joining us at 10:00 PM EDT.
Good evening. It's 10:00 PM. Are you there Michael?
MsgId: *omni_visions(4)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:00:42 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Hello, Jim. Yes, I'm here.
MsgId: *omni_visions(5)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:01:55 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Great! Welcome to OmniVisions. To dive right in, let's begin with your new book, "Jack Faust." Could you give us a summary/precis of what it's about?
MsgId: *omni_visions(6)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:04:13 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
"Jack Faust" is, at heart, the core Faust legend. But in my version Mephistopheles is not a supernatural demon, but a manipulated image produced by an alien race living in a bubble universe in which the physical constants are such that it has a higher ambient temperature, time flows more rapidly, and information can be processed at a correspondingly higher speed. "Mephistopheles" hates the human race because we will outlive them. They wish us dead. But they cannot affect anything in our universe physically. They could not move a mote of dust. They can only communicate with the mind of one man . . . Faust . . . and the weapon they choose for our destruction is knowledge.
MsgId: *omni_visions(9)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:08:25 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
It's a woinderful premise, and a book I couldn't put down, save for this interview. (I'm about 50 pages from the end.) Yet for all the sf trappings, there's quite an undercurrent of other themes. Could you share these with us? (Yeah, I know--simple question. :-)
MsgId: *omni_visions(10)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:10:55 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Themes . . . Let's see. Mephistopheles gives Faust the means to compress five hundred years of technological progress in one lifetime. So it's possible to look at everything that's happened to us in the last half-millenium at once. You could say this book is my complaint against the Twentieth Century. It summarizes everything that's wrong with everybody. It's about responsibility and wisdom, and the lack of same. And it's about Margarete.
MsgId: *omni_visions(12)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:13:55 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Would you consider an updated retelling of Goethe, or was that more of a launching point for an individual work?
MsgId: *omni_visions(13)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:16:06 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
I consider this a complete repudiation of Goethe. For those who haven't read his Faust, Goethe's magician's compact with the Devil is that he only has to surrender his soul if he's ever -- for a single instant -- made content. In the end, angels lift him up to Heaven as a reward for his divine discontent. Which is an excellent philosphy for a writer. But Goethe wrote during the Enlightenment. Today, after two World Wars and the Holocaust, that play reads very differently. Hitler died discontent -- during his last week in the Fuhrerbunker, it was recorded he said, "Afterwards, one regrets having been so kind" -- but I doubt he went to Heaven. Also, his Margarete was no more than a marker for Faust's desire, someone for him to yearn for and feel remorse over. I wanted to tell Margarete's story, give her her own voice, let her experience damnation -- just like any male hero -- and in the end redemption. That's what I was trying to do, anyway. And in my humble opinion, I beat Goethe two falls out of three.
MsgId: *omni_visions(18)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:23:01 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
(broad grin) Your opinion is shared. There have been a number of variations of the Faust story, including opera and rock musicals. Did you research any of them while prepping for this book?
MsgId: *omni_visions(19)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:24:57 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
(I also included a description of a prostoglandin abortion in the same scansion and rhyme scheme--the limping line of Hans Sachs, the "Wittenberg Nightengale" -- as Goethe employed for his plays.) Very few, no more than six or seven, and then only in passing. But I did read a couple hundred books of history. It was amazing how much I had to learn to write "Jack Faust," and how much of it I had to throw away. On the very first page, I multiplied the population of Wittenberg by four, because the smaller number didn't suit my purposes. It taught me a great deal of respect for historical novelists, I must say. I can't imagine writing this stuff without the liberty of being able to change the facts!
MsgId: *omni_visions(22)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:29:11 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Now here's a nice can of worms to open . . . : For all the sf/fantasy trappings, do you consider this book belonging to any particular genre?
MsgId: *omni_visions(24)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:32:01 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
I wrote it not knowing if it would be published as fantasy (because it's a deal with the devil story) or science fiction (because it's about a mad scientist), and in the end, my American publisher has packaged it as mainstream and my British publisher as horror. Genre is, in many ways, simply a convenient marketing handle. I guess "Jack Faust" is whatever Christopher Marlowe's version was.
MsgId: *omni_visions(26)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:37:20 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
It's true that it's largely a marketing tool, (and one, I may hasten to add which threatens to pigeonhole,) but there is "something" which binds this all together, and whatever thast may be, I think "Jack Faust" (and any number of Marlowe's books, for that matter) belongs.
MsgId: *omni_visions(27)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:40:31 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
What I most appreciate about SF/fantasy is that the genre gives a writer a set of tools with which to deal with things that are resistant to analysis. I once wrote a story in which consciousness flowed backwards, so that one knew everything that would happen from the current instant to one's death, but not whether the person one woke up with that morning was spouse or stranger. In that story, "Foresight," I was then able to explore questions of predestination and free will that could not have easily been examined otherwise. In a mainstream story, all the characters would simply have been mad. That's an extraordinary power that genre provides
MsgId: *omni_visions(29)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:44:40 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
So, having said all that, I guess you would have to plead guilty for writing within the genre. (Although you were granted a Literary License.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(30)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:46:56 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Jeeze, I've written five novels and fifty stories, and "Jack Faust" is the only one that could conceivably BE anything but genre. So yes, of course. Still, it points out the ludicrous nature of genre boundaries. (Incidentally, every novel I've ever written, and both short story collections are currently in print. Ask any writer--this is unusual. And it feels great.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(32)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:51:16 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Yes, it does. Of late, a good deal of the better sf writers (for lack of a better term, I'll continue to use it unless you can offer an alternative) have been authoring book which beg the definition, and perhaps the concept, of sf, yet remain if not within the genre boudaries, at least the kind of book better sf readers want. Is the field finally maturing?(And congratulations on having those books in print. I was interviewing Pat Cadigan on my radio show this past weekend, and was horrified to realize her books aren't in print.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(34)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:54:22 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Oh, it's been mature for quite some time. What's happened in the last couple of decades is that middlebrow fiction (by which is meant, roughly, that which is neither Virginia Woolf nor Spiderman novelizations -- involving but not daunting to your typical intelligent reader) has been dwindling in the mainstream. There were a lot of people who wanted to write intelligent & involving books. They went where they were allowed to be. And here they are. (I will say that it would be better for both regions of literature, if there were more middlebrow slots open in the mainstream.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(36)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:56:25 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Given your premise, then perhaps it's the publishers and editors who are to be congratulated for allowing the good stuff to be nurtured. It's all too easy to sell the cr*p. after all.
MsgId: *omni_visions(37)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:56:44 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Most books are out of print. It's the natural state of books, alas.Actually, to play the devil's advocate here, the low-level stuff is no easier to sell than the top-flight stuff. The books are simply not selling as well as they should be. And I really have no complaint about pulp. SF has derived a lot of its virtues from the pulps.
MsgId: *omni_visions(39)
Date: Thu Sep 11 22:59:07 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
That's one advantage of cybermedia -- nothing ever goes away, no matter how much you may want it to.After just releasing "Jack Faust" you "would" have to play the devil's advocate to some extent...
MsgId: *omni_visions(41)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:01:59 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
I look foward to the maturing of cybermedia. What we have now -- everybody knows what it's going to be like, but it never seems to be available here and now. But it takes time to learn what works and doesn't. I can remember when the most involving and innovative computer game available was Pong. Pac-Man was a revolutionary leap forward. And, so far as I can tell, the field is still learning.
MsgId: *omni_visions(42)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:03:09 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
My favorite question, and then I'll open the floor to audience participation: You write both exceptional short fiction as well as novels. How do these two crafts (and the business thereof) differ for you?
MsgId: *omni_visions(43)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:03:58 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Ah, there's another thing . . . in nearly every version of Faust you've ever seen, the Devil gets all the best lines. He says what everybody thinks but is too polite to say. In my version, Mephistopheles has all the worst lines. He's the voice of rape, of violence, of ethnic cleansing . . . I tried to give evil a bad name.
MsgId: *omni_visions(44)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:06:02 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
(evil grin this time.) (...and I'll put a bookmark on your comment about cybermedia, which I';d like to get back to later.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(45)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:06:34 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Short stories are sweet and short and pure, like a perfectly made knife. They do their job with nothing wasted. Novels are worlds -- there's so much space in there you can fill them up with almost anything, provided it's good. There are hundreds of jokes and notions in "Jack Faust" that would take a certain amount of teasing out to find. Can't do that with a short story. The bulges would show.
MsgId: *omni_visions(46)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:07:38 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Indeed. (Message to all: We have now opened the forum for audience participation. If you would like to add your comments or chat with Michael Swanwick, use the dialog box which should have been added to your screen by now. (Click on "Pause While Typing", first.) Please don't forget to sign your messages so we know who you are.)Is it economically possible to continue writing short fiction in today's market?
MsgId: *omni_visions(48)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:09:53 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Absolutely. You can't make minimum wage doing it, though.
MsgId: *omni_visions(49)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:10:09 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
(possible s/b feasible)
MsgId: *omni_visions(50)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:11:17 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
(I've written seven stories this summer. I do it because I love short stories, and to keep myself in practice between novels. They won't bring in as much money as a summer tending bar would, though.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(51)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:11:28 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
"How" do you write? Do you have a regular regimen where you force yourself to sit down every day and work? Does it come easily for you?Do you feel that writing so many short stories hones your skills?
MsgId: *omni_visions(53)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:13:37 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Writers, alas, learn that to make money takes novels. Most start out at short length, learn their craft, make a name, and move on. I'm fortunate in that I'm able to write at both lengths, and do so at the same time. Those who can't have a hard time of it. A hardER time of it.How I write: Eight hours a day at the machine, unless I'm researching. It keeps the hindbrain from thinking it can get out of the drudgework by not giving me any ideas. Do the short stories hone my skills? Actually, they give me new skills, because I try something new with each, so I'm constantly learning.
MsgId: *omni_visions(55)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:18:07 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
And the last part of those questions: Does it come easily for you? You've been most prolific without sacrificing quality.
MsgId: *omni_visions(56)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:18:10 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
(Mostly I write short stories for the visceral excitement of it. When you've pulled off something really good and genuinely new, you feel second only to God.)Writing for me is like digging a tunnel through granite with my fingernails. It's nothing I'd do if I didn't really love the end result.
MsgId: *omni_visions(58)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:20:13 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
I agree -- novels are mighty edifices and great accomplshments, but short stories are gems.
MsgId: *omni_visions(59)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:21:08 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
(I could make a lot more money in advertising. But I'd have to spend the rest of my life talking about how I Used To Be A Writer.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(60)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:21:56 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Getting back to your comment about the maturing of cybermedia . . . Can you articulate what it portends, and does it offer any new legitimate avenues for the craft of fiction?
MsgId: *omni_visions(61)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:23:40 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Half the art is in short fiction -- three quarters of the excitement. Bill Gibson's "NEUROMANCER" didn't demonstrate anything that those who had read "Burning Chrome" didn't already know. Those who read the zines -- Asimov's, F&SF, Omni Online -- are right on the cutting edge, at least three years ahead of the current wave of novels.Everybody knows what we can expect from cybermedia, just as ten years ago any kindergartener could tell you all about virtual (which is another anticipatory technology) -- fluid, intuitive technology, involving links, choices that feel natural, stories with accompanying video and animation, etc., etc., etc. ...
The problem is not only that the technology isn't here, but that the conceptual narrative breakthroughs haven't yet been made. We're in the position of the guild players on their wagons, performing miracle plays . . . Shakespeare's not here yet and the form needs refinement, a playhouse, and "Marlowe's mighty line" -- iambic pentameter.
I don't know exactly what cybermedia will look like when they arrive. But we'll all recognize the beast. And it will be no more a threat to existing media than oil paintings were to sculpture.
MsgId: *omni_visions(63)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:27:37 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Amen to that. Do you envision yourself writing spoecifically for cybermedia if/when it matures? (I know--we have two threads of conversation going simultaneously.)I couldn't agree more in your analysis of "BURNING CHROME" vs "NEUROMANCER." Thank you for articulating it. Speaking of Gibson, you have collaborated with any number of writers, including WG, Jack Dann, and Gardner Dozois. What is it like for you when you are working to create a common vision or story? And what was the actual process you used to collarborate?
MsgId: *omni_visions(67)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:31:44 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Each collaboration is different. The one thing they all have in common is that I enter into them to learn. It's as much work to write half a story as it is to write it all. With Gibson, we passed "Burning Chrome" back and forth, each holding it for a month, during which any changes at all could be made, back and forth until finished. With Dozois and Dann . . . we talked through the stories through the wee hours of the morning, I did first full draft, Jack did second, and Gardner the final version. I just wrote a "Vergil Magus" story with Avram Davidson. He died, leaving behind an unfinished story. I broke it into sections, interweaving a second plot-line. Then, when both plot-lines met, the story could end, and so I merged them and completed it.
MsgId: *omni_visions(69)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:34:21 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.14.194
Michael, you mean "Dogfight."
MsgId: *omni_visions(70)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:35:02 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Thanks Ellen, I was starting to check which alternate universe I was in.
MsgId: *omni_visions(71)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:35:34 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
I did mean "Dogfight." What did I say? No, don't tell me. I have discovered over the years that I am a reliable source of fiction, but absolutely untrustworthy on matters of fact.(Gibson, incidentally, is a fine artist on the micro scale -- line by line, word by word. I learned quite a bit from passing some of his paragraphs through my fingers.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(74)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:39:34 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
This question fell between the virtual cracks: Do you envision yourself writing specifically for cybermedia if/when it matures?Following up on the collaboration question(s): Is it any more difficult than writing solo? I'd imagine it's like allowing someone else to teach your baby how to speak.
MsgId: *omni_visions(75)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:40:08 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
If it looked like fun, sure. I was invited to write some hypertext fiction once, and I came up with some interesting ideas and structures for it. But nothing came of it, because the industry is still too small and poor to send me a free set of software tools on spec.It's about the same amount of work, but for half the story. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Terry Bisson and I were going to write a story once. I told Gardner Dozois we were collaborating on a story, and he looked at me and said, "No, you're not." And we weren't. Terry sent the opening fragment back with his blessings and I finished it myself.
MsgId: *omni_visions(77)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:42:54 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
feh. You may not know the right people. Let's talk when I see you next week. (Reading at Dixon Place.)Could you elaborate on that story? How did Gardner know?
MsgId: *omni_visions(79)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:45:03 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
I'm always happy to talk. I just can't make promises. The last time I did was when I volunteered to write a story for the J.R.R. Tolkien festshrift. "The Changeling's Tale," my Tolkien-and-hot-elfsex story came out about two years later.
MsgId: *omni_visions(80)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:45:59 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.14.194
No that you're difficult or anything (as evidenced by your many successful collabs with Gardner and Jack) but I know Gibson said he'd never collaborate again after "Dogfight" and mmm I know you and Jack had a bit of trouble on "Ships." Why do you think those two went less smoothly than others?
MsgId: *omni_visions(82)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:46:55 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Gardner knew Terry, and that's all. I forget which story that was, but I do recall that it made the final ballot for either the Nebula or Hugo. I was disappointed that it didn't win because I'd carefully obtained his home phone number and was looking forward to calling him in the middle of the night and saying, "Schmuck!"
MsgId: *omni_visions(83)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:47:31 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.14.194
Oops. I meant "not."
MsgId: *omni_visions(84)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:48:33 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Don't let that stop you...:-) Fun's fun.
MsgId: *omni_visions(85)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:49:06 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Two different stories. I don't think "Ships" would have been difficult at all if Jack hadn't decided to sell it to you "BEFORE IT WAS FINISHED." If we'd been able to back and forth on it for another six months to a year, it would've found its ending without so much struggle.As for Gibson, I honestly don't think he was meant to collaborate with anyone. He writes to satisfy that demon in the hindbrain, and anything that doesn't sound like that demon voice won't please him. We were three-quarters of the way through (no ending in sight) when he read the story at a convention to a lukewarm reception. He decided we should throw away Deke (the protagonist) and tell the story from Tiny's point of view. I heard this and wrote the ending real fast. I'm sorry he didn't write Tiny's story--it would have been terrific, I think. But I wasn't about to throw away all the work we'd already done. (But I'll tell you what -- if there was any rancor in the collaboration, I sure didn't see it. Bill is a gent.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(88)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:54:34 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
What are you working on now?
MsgId: *omni_visions(89)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:56:02 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.14.194
Bill wasn't upset or angry he was just surprised, I think. He said you kept making a really depressing ending and he kept trying to lighten it up. And of course, you won.
MsgId: *omni_visions(90)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:56:41 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
Right now, I've got about twenty stories on my desk, in different stages of completion. I'm also working on a novel about which I can say almost nothing except that it has a lot of the feel of Jack Faust, but with a happy ending. Not just a happy ending for one of my novels, but a real, flat-out undeniable happy ending. One that will break hearts, if eveything works out right.I carried that ending around with me for years waiting for a chance to use it. I was living on the streets in Center City Philadelphia, crashing in people's living rooms, and I did something amazingly cool. I mean, just perfect. And I was bombing along the sidewalk, full of it, waiting to tell somebody, and I realized there was nobody to tell. I was out on the streets, no friends, no contacts, no hope. And, along with the resulting emotional crash, I had this overwhelming feeling that -- damn! That was good ending for a story. (Anyway, I don't think Bill had a specific ending for the story to offer as an alternative.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(94)
Date: Fri Sep 12 00:01:41 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.14.194
In any case, your ending worked perfectly.
MsgId: *omni_visions(91)
Date: Thu Sep 11 23:58:48 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
I know I'm looking forward to it. Jusging by the clock on the virtual wall, we're about done. Any loose threads to pick up, or final comments?
MsgId: *omni_visions(95)
Date: Fri Sep 12 00:02:18 EDT 1997
From: Michael_Swanwick At: 152.163.194.25
God and the Devil, Goethe and Bill Gibson, I think we've about said it all. 'Night to all.
MsgId: *omni_visions(96)
Date: Fri Sep 12 00:02:47 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
You certainly did. And it's interesting (to me) to hear the "Making Of..." tales.Likewise. Well, it's been most enjoyable, and you were most erudite. The only reason I'm glad this is over is so I can go back to finish reading "Jack Faust." Thanks for being here.
To all, thanks for coming by. Don't forget that next Thursday, Ed Bryant will host Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, discussing her new book, "Writ in Blood." The following Thursday, Sept. 25, my guest will be Lucius Shepard. Good night.
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