Prime Time Replay:

Harvey Jacobs
on his novel American Goliath


MsgId: *omni_visions(2)
Date: Thu Oct 23 21:55:17 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Hello and welcome to OmniVisions. Tonight, our guest is Harvey Jacobs, who will discuss his most recent novel, "AMERICAN GOLIATH." Jacobs is also the author of "BEAUTIFUL SOUP," "SUMMER ON A MOUNTAIN OF SPICES," and "THE EGG OF THE GLAK AND OTHER STORIES." His short fiction has appeared in PLAYBOY, ESQUIRE, FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION, and THE PARIS REVIEW, among others. Welcome, Harvey. We'll start in a few minutes.
MsgId: *omni_visions(3)
Date: Thu Oct 23 21:56:10 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Jenna, you might mention my book, "THE JUROR" too.
MsgId: *omni_visions(4)
Date: Thu Oct 23 21:58:43 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

That's right, I'd forgotten that one. Maybe we can talk about it later; I don't think I've read that one. I have recently finished "AMERICAN GOLIATH," however, and I've got plenty to ask you about it.
MsgId: *omni_visions(5)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:00:10 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.14.184

In about an hour or so we'll open the chat door so people in the audience can ask questions. When we do, please remember to press "pause" before typing and to sign your names.
MsgId: *omni_visions(6)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:00:18 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Okay
MsgId: *omni_visions(7)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:02:33 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Thanks, Ellen. "AMERICAN GOLIATH" is a wonderful book, and a strange one. The first thing I'd like to ask you, Harvey, is this: Why the Cardiff Giant? What made you decide that his story -- and the story of those surrounding his life -- had to be told?
MsgId: *omni_visions(8)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:06:28 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

The story of the Cardiff Giant has intrigued me since I stumbled across it. (Tripping through the footnotes of history.) For those who may not know the Cardif Giant was a "hoax" perpetrated on an American public nymbed nt civil war at a time when many were eager to believe in the nation'd "Manifest Destiny." A stone man discovered on a farm in a village in NY state was passed off as a giant from the time of Genesis. The Bible tells us that "There were giants in the Earth in those days " and a lot of people liked the idea of believing they were American giants and that, in fact, America was the Holy Land...in fact, the Cardiff Giant was made of Iowa gypsum and carved by two Chicago tombstone cutters. It was shipped to the farm where it was later "discovered" after lying fallow for a year. The man behind the hoax was George Hull, a disgruntled cigar maker with a grudge against God and a desore to make a fast buck. The real story serves as the spine for the novel which is a mix of real and fictional characters and events. The story, for me, contains within itself many fascinating facets and seemed curiously relevant to our time.
MsgId: *omni_visions(11)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:12:53 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

From what I can tell, George Hull, the man behind the hoax, is one of the real characters; so is Stubby Newell, the man on whose farm the giant was discovered. P.T. Barnum plays a part in the drama, although your account is fiction. How and why did you posit George's family as you did? The silent, submissive wife, the crazy father, the Reverend with a vision of giants . . . do they play real roles, or mostly fictional?
MsgId: *omni_visions(17)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:34:07 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

George Hull was very real, but virtually nothing is known about him. After his hoax was exposed George was depicted as a scoundral of darkand sinister main. Other accounts say that he was a jolly and ribald soul, but what was he really like ? My George Hull was rather more dimensional -- trapped in a job he hated (rolling cihgars), yearning for a touch of glory and wealth. looking for something to substitute for an emptiness within him that made it impossible for him to believe in much of anything.His wife Angelica was forced on him. She is not submissive, but simply dutiful in her own eyes, wanting only a child from George and little else.

This arrangement is not pleasant for either of them, but stems from the fact that George hired her first husband as a surrogate soldier to replace George in the Civil War draft -- this was legal. The contract stipulated that in the event of the soldier's death, George would replace him in the marriage bed. Stubby Newell was, in fact George Hull;s cousin, a poor farmer who became George's puppet. The giant was found on Sypbby's farm. P.T. Barnum, sensing a good thing tried to buy the stone man when he was rebuffed he actually had a duplicate made which he passed off as the "one and only original." And I think that answers the question.

MsgId: *omni_visions(23)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:41:19 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

So George is a man disappointed in life -- even when he thinks he's found a scheme to bring him something more in life, it ends up failing. He seems to share his misery with the giant. In the novel, we sometimes see things from the giant's viewpoint. I thought that was a fabulous touch, but what purpose did you intend it to serve? Was it your intention that George and the giant have similar desires, similar problems with their lives?
MsgId: *omni_visions(25)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:45:27 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

The American Goliath had spent his life safely cocooned inside a mountain. He found himself torn from it, shaped into a shape he did not understand, and suddenly experienced intimations odd flesh and feeling . . . enough to upset ANY stone giant. George Hulls' experience as "father" to the creature forced George, in turn, to deal with feelings that were a puzzlement to him. In that sense, George and Goliath grew rather close. A 3000 lb hunk of gypsum and a 200 lb. cigar maker.
MsgId: *omni_visions(27)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:50:16 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

So rather than miserable in "his" life, he was miserable in what replaced his life -- what was forced on him, the way Angelica was forced on George Hull? Was George unconsciously re-creating for himself his own mishandled existence? Maybe George wanted a "child", whether Angelica's or one of his own making, that he could use to start over. And that could be what Americans of the time saw in the Cardiff Giant -- a new beginning for them, a new kind of existence as the beginnings of life, the site of the holy land.
MsgId: *omni_visions(28)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:54:02 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

That is on target. Another aspect of George's creation that the giant was shown to be a man who died a death of great agony, but whose face reflects the kind of bliss that Joseph Campbell sopoke and wrote of. The suggestion of redemption after pain was very appealing . . . in line with your comments.
MsgId: *omni_visions(29)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:56:30 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

I think that's a recurring theme throughout the novel. Angelica eventually recreates herself; Stubby seems to become a little smarter (though no genius); and, what I noticed most strongly was the redemption of Mr. Tom Thumb, who realizes that he can stop while he's ahead or dwindle his fame into infamy and obscurity. But what about Barnum?
MsgId: *omni_visions(30)
Date: Thu Oct 23 22:59:58 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Barnum is Barnum -- a flimflam artist, a hoaxster, apart from the corwd -- the quintessential observer, cynical beyond the need for redemption. And he enjoyed every minute of it.
MsgId: *omni_visions(31)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:03:06 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Well, then, what of Barnum's giant? He seems to think the entire world is beyond redemption, and that humanity's only purpose is to preserve him (the stone man). I suppose his attitude matches that of his creator, but what does the conflict between the stone men mean to the two of them? Is it the same as the conflict between real men, or it is the conflict those men have within themselves?
MsgId: *omni_visions(32)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:06:38 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

The difference between Goliath amd Barnum's giant, valled Titan, reflects the battle for America's soul. Goliath, despite himself learns something about compassion, whereas Titan sees everything as a means to an inevitable fiery end. This beginning to sound heavier than the giant -- when, in fact, the novel is pretty frisky and light on its feet.
MsgId: *omni_visions(33)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:10:24 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

It is, it's true. You've drawn some wonderful characters in there, in particular the dowser and his grandfather. It certainly never occurred to me to wonder whether the giant had had his bris. And one of the giant's "miracles" -- causing every man present to sport an erection when the covering of his own was lifted -- actually made me giggle out loud. What about those "miracles"? Are they simply good fiction, or do they relate to the giant's slow awakening to his human-ness?
MsgId: *omni_visions(35)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:11:54 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.12.230

Fyi, the room is now open. If anyone has questions, please press "pause" before typing in the message box and please sign your name.
MsgId: *omni_visions(36)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:14:49 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

The "miracles" related to the crowd's needs and the giant's desire to accomodate them. as for his own dimension (which we were generous) even Mark Twain made comment about the need to keep him suitably covered to preserve the peace.
MsgId: *omni_visions(37)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:18:38 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 209.86.24.50

Hi Harvey! "AMERICAN GOLIATH" is wonderful! I was curious when the two giants came alive for you in the manner you portrayed them and what happened to Barnum's Titan? Thanks, Melanie
MsgId: *omni_visions(39)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:20:34 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Hi Melanie -- no one knows what happened to Titan. He disappeared in a westerly direction in the general area of Michael Eisner.
MsgId: *omni_visions(40)
MsgId: *omni_visions(38)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:18:58 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Well, for the record, I loved "AMERICAN GOLIATH" and I recommend that everyone in this room read it if they haven't already done so. It's a wonderful marriage of serious thoughts with sharp, witty prose, and it enlightens and entertains in equal measures. Do I sound like ad copy? I loved it. Maybe you could tell us about some of your other books now. For instance, "BEAUTIFUL SOUP" is difficult to find, from what I hear.
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:21:44 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 153.34.212.143

Is it known who Barnum hired to create his giant? -J. Schwartz
MsgId: *omni_visions(44)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:25:44 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

j. - A man named C.F. Otto in Syracuse. The sculptors of Hull's giant in Chicago read that some scholars described the work as a fabulous piece of ancient art and instantly demanded more money -- which is how the fraud began to unravel as reoporters followed the money trail.
MsgId: *omni_visions(41)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:22:42 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.12.230

Hi Harvey. I loved "AMERICAN GOLIATH" too but I've always been a fan of your work from the time I read "THE JUROR" which I've always thought was brilliant and should be made into a movie (the "real" Juror, not the bad one that was made into a movie with Alec Baldwin and Demi Moore).
MsgId: *omni_visions(45)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:27:42 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Thank you! "THE JUROR" is about an average guy so intent on serving justice that he uses lunch hours while on jury duty to commit all-American crimes to support his family and get the kids through college. Unfortunately it is very hard to find copies.
MsgId: *omni_visions(46)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:27:47 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Was Barnum's giant a carven sculpture? I think I read somewhere that it was plaster, might have been from a secretly-made cast.
MsgId: *omni_visions(48)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:29:26 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

TO my knowledge it was carved out of local granite. However, it might have been a member of the cast of CATS.
MsgId: *omni_visions(49)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:31:51 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Hmmm . . . I think the giant was much more appealing. Did you make up the bit about the skull fragment, or was that ploy actually used to make Titan seem authentic?
MsgId: *omni_visions(50)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:34:51 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Actually not -- in one report of George Hull's future activity in Colorado it was said that he had proposed doing exactly this so that experts boring into the skull would be fooled -- but that was more rumor than fact. However, other hoaxers have used actual fragments to full experts.
MsgId: *omni_visions(51)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:36:25 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

I'm assuming that the jacket photo is of you standing over the actual giant at the Farmer's Museum in Cooperstown, NY. What's he like in person?
MsgId: *omni_visions(53)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:37:48 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

The strong silent type.
MsgId: *omni_visions(52)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:37:15 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 153.34.212.143

What about this hoax perked your interest the most and inspired the book? Do you think that people in 1997 are less likely to fall for hoaxes than people in 1869 were? -Helen
MsgId: *omni_visions(55)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:40:19 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

I think people in 1997 are no less likely to fall for hoaxes -- take a look at your newspaper: there is no inflation, in the new world orderthe world is tranquil. Headlines like these do suggest that we are still a bit gullible and probably always will be.
MsgId: *omni_visions(54)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:39:25 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 209.86.24.50

Harvey, you're a master at bringing characters to life. In particular, in "AMERICAN GOLIATH," the scene where you introduce General Tom Thumb in the graveyard was magical. I don't have a question, I just wanted to point that out. :-) --Melanie
MsgId: *omni_visions(57)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:41:58 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Are those headlines a different kind of hoax, though? Most people would say so, but they serve the same purpose for believers.
MsgId: *omni_visions(58)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:44:27 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

They serve the same purpse for perpetrators. I think hoaxes alike Barnum's and Hull's were less harmful and the crowd was a willing co-conspirator. Americans like to laugh at themselves. A capacity we may be losing.
MsgId: *omni_visions(59)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:44:56 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 153.34.212.143

In the book it seems clear you appreciate smoking? Please don't tell me you hate smoke and are a vegetarian! -Helen
MsgId: *omni_visions(60)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:47:27 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

I smoke and ate a snowy owl for dinner, Helen.
MsgId: *omni_visions(61)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:50:08 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

I very quickly want to ask a question of mine from before: How can people get copies of "BEAUTIFUL SOUP?" I know it's hard to find, though perhaps not so hard as "THE JUROR," and I think you've got a bunch of fans here who wouldn't mind knowing how to get their hands on a copy.
MsgId: *omni_visions(62)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:52:46 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Two ways: the trade paepr version is available from Celadon Press 101 West 12th NY NY 10011, suite 7k For $10
OR
a download version will soon be available, for info email celgo@aol.com -- thanks for asking!
MsgId: *omni_visions(63)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:55:24 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Glad to oblige. I know it's next to read on my list. If anyone has any further questions, they should ask them now, since we have less than ten minutes left here -- though I have no objection to going over a little, if need be.
MsgId: *omni_visions(64)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:57:17 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Thank you Jenna, and Ellen -- and you out there -- your patience is much appreciated this evening.
MsgId: *omni_visions(65)
Date: Thu Oct 23 23:59:42 EDT 1997
From: Jenna_Felice At: 205.198.117.95

Thanks very much for being here, Harvey. If no one has any further questions, I guess we'll call it a night. Thanks for coming, everyone. Hope you enjoyed it!
MsgId: *omni_visions(66)
Date: Fri Oct 24 00:00:53 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.12.230

Please join us next Thursday for a special Halloween edition of OMNIVISIONS with guest Tim Lucas, publisher of Video Watchdog and author of "THROAT SPROCKETS." Ed Bryant will be hosting.
MsgId: *omni_visions(67)
Date: Fri Oct 24 00:01:34 EDT 1997
From: Harvey_Jacobs At: 204.210.219.65

Thanks and sweet dreams!
MsgId: *omni_visions(68)
Date: Fri Oct 24 00:01:34 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.12.230

And thank you Jenna and Harvey.


Home || Prime Time || Live Science || Machine Dreams || Project Open Book || SF-Fantasy-Horror
Continuum || Antimatter || Mind-Brain Lab || Interactive IQ || Gallery || OMNI Toons

Questions, comments and suggestions can be mailed to the webmaster.


Copyright © 1998 by Omni Publications International, Ltd. All Rights Reserved.