Prime Time Replay:
Drs. Shirley R. Steinberg and
Joe L. Kincheloe
on their book Kinderculture: The Corporate
Construction of Childhood
MsgId: *infinities(48)
Date: Sun Aug 3 21:09:02 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
Greetings All! I'm your moderator for this evening. Are our guests present?For those of you who may be confused about the time for tonight's INFINITIES show in OMNI - Internet, our posted schedule says 9:00 PM Eastern Time but the actual time was to be 10:00 PM ET....So, if our guests are here, we can proceed now; otherwise the Chat will begin at 10:00 PM Eastern Time.
Thanks for your patience and understanding! -- OMNI_Moderator_Noonan
MsgId: *infinities(52)
Date: Sun Aug 3 21:46:31 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Peggy, I am here. Do I just write, then hit addit, then wait for a response?
MsgId: *infinities(53)
Date: Sun Aug 3 21:47:31 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
Hi Dr. Steinberg... Are you ready to proceed or should we wait for Dr. Kincheloe to arrive?
MsgId: *infinities(57)
Date: Sun Aug 3 21:50:33 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
I am ready, Kincheloe has a case of cyber fright, actually, he types too slowly
MsgId: *infinities(70)
Date: Sun Aug 3 21:59:40 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
If you're ready, we'll begin now. Good evening and welcome to INFINITIES chat in OMNI Internet! Tonight our guests are Drs. Shirley R. Steinberg and Joe L. Kincheloe, authors of a fascinating new book called "KINDERCULTURE: The Corporate Construction of Childhood" (Westview Press, Boulder, CO 1997).I'll be the OMNI Moderator tonight -- I'm Peggy Noonan, a frequent contributor to OMNI and other publications. For those who may not be familiar with our guests, permit me to introduce them by telling you a little about their accomplishments...
Shirley R. Steinberg, Ph.D., teaches at Adelphi University and is the general editor of "Taboo: The Journal of Culture and Education," and author of "Ain't Misbehavin'". Joe L. Kincheloe, Ph.D., teaches cultural studies and pedagogy at Pennsylvania State University and is the author of "Toil and Trouble, Towards a Critical Politics of Teacher Thinking," and his forthcoming book (also from Westview Press), "The Sign of The Burger: Doubletakes On McDonald's." Drs. Steinberg and Kincheloe are coauthors "Measured Lies: The Bell Curve Examined" (with Aaron Gresson) and "Kinderculture: The Corporate Construction of Childhood"
Welcome to INFINITIES, Drs. Steinberg and Kincheloe! Please tell our audience a little about your book, Dr. Steinberg.
MsgId: *infinities(81)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:07:49 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
We thought we would do a book on the construction of childhood consciousness, clubs, toys, play, etc. However, as we began our research, we found that the postmodern child is now "formed" in a sense by corporate curriculums that Disney, Mattel, McDdonald's, etc... have more of a curricular imput over children than the school or home environment. As we investigated, we made many discoveries about the consumer consumptiveness of childhood and just how early children are taught to consume.
MsgId: *infinities(85)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:12:07 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
How do corporations accomplish this? I would think television would play a major role, but are there other ways the message gets into kids' brains?
MsgId: *infinities(86)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:12:30 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
We raise little consumers, a three year old, for instance, knows details about McDonalds -- they sell hamburgers, who the characters are, etc. Along with this consumer knowledge is a probability that the child is being subjected to certain political and ideological concepts promoted by the corporation.
MsgId: *infinities(87)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:15:06 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
As adults, we don't normally think of getting a side order of consumerism or ideology along with our burgers and fries... How do the corporations get those messages across to kids?
MsgId: *infinities(88)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:15:36 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Reagan era, we saw this return to "family values". It was paralleled in advertising, McDonald's went all out to evoke these values thru commercials, etc... Children are taught that these consumption values equal love -- families sacrifice to go to Disneyland, not only spending a fortune, but being bombarded by ideological mantras promoted by Westinghouse, GE, Nabisco, etc.. Schools are funded by corporations, reading, literacy and academics are supported and curriculum is designed by many american corporations.
MsgId: *infinities(89)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:16:57 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
This sounds almost Orwellian -- a 1984 scenario.
MsgId: *infinities(90)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:19:15 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
The messages are subtle, actually Orwellian is more obvious. The tacit messages -- in order to understand how they work, one has to understand it within context.
MsgId: *infinities(91)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:19:31 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
How much of this corporate manipulation of the media to, in effect, brainwash our kids into being good little consumers, is intentional?
MsgId: *infinities(92)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:23:06 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Group of corporate entities sitting around looking for ways to indoctrinate our children -- no, there is a group of corporate entities who want to sell their product, create loyalties and lifelong consumers, however, along with that comes the ideology that is represented by the corporate leaders.I believe my first words were lost, there is not a group of entities trying to indoctrinate, loyalties to corporations by consumers have them engaging in attacks of any critical reading of their products or questioning of their ethics and agendas.
MsgId: *infinities(95)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:26:26 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
"KINDERCULTURE" explores how corporate America is shaping our nation's future by molding our children and in it you've talked about McDonald's, Barbie, Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Disney -- All play major roles in child-shaping. Is there one that's the greatest threat? Or is the problem more the result of cumulative exposure to media manipulation?
MsgId: *infinities(96)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:28:41 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Each corporation constructs family, childhood, schooling, and even love and happiness in a certain way, yes media adds to this picture, it is the channel in which the message is carried to the consuming receivers. Critical media literacy is not a part of our curriculums in schools, but media viewing is the most important curriculum of childhood.
MsgId: *infinities(98)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:31:05 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 152.163.205.87
What can parents to do protect their kids, Dr. S?
MsgId: *infinities(99)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:33:34 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
To use critical media literacy as a tool to discuss and be self conscious about consumption. Take up the issue in schools and parent groups... What are the implications of Nike, say for inner city children? What about consumer anger? When do we point out the exploitation of our children with anger and indignation?
MsgId: *infinities(100)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:34:02 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 152.163.205.87
The biggies are everywhere... Does it make any difference if you try to keep kids from watching advertising?
MsgId: *infinities(101)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:35:42 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
Pointing out the exploitation of our children (with anger and righteous indignation) would help open eyes...
MsgId: *infinities(102)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:36:01 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Calling for boycott, merely intelligent discussion and curricular changes that reflect the consumeristic side of our society --- we raise our students and children to consume, the idea of a profession is founded many times on the earnings capital involved... What can you buy? How much? As americans we are obsessed with purchasing. Ok, that is bad enough, but coupled with ideological agendas, usually right wing... Dan Qualesque --- that is scarey.
MsgId: *infinities(103)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:36:39 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
On a one-to-one basis, parents could enlighten their own kids, but how can we address this problem as a society? Where does the average parent turn or what steps should he or she take?
MsgId: *infinities(104)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:39:08 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Become critically media literate themselves. Be suspicious of corporations, read the literature that is coming out -- read our book, see the underlying idea/ls imposed upon children as they purchase. What are the racial, class and gender implications of the advertising of particular media? Yes, and indignation is an essential tool in empowerment.
MsgId: *infinities(105)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:40:45 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
It sounds as though the first step would be to become critically aware ourselves.
MsgId: *infinities(106)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:42:43 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Naturally, however, it is incredible to see how protective adults are of their corporations -- wow, look at the new McDonalds ads --- they say it best "My Mcdonalds" -- by allowing us to become part and parcel of McDonalds we are patriotic and loyal to the company.
MsgId: *infinities(107)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:43:55 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
They have indeed become very good at cementing that "family" concept.
MsgId: *infinities(109)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:45:50 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Joe was called a communist on radio several times because he gave a critical reading of the agendas implicit in McDonalds. How easy is it to criticize Disney? I mean their curriculum? The baptist boycott is dealing with issues that are not reading the messages involved in Disney movies, for instance, mother absent, patriarchial figures, darkskinned females being "acquired" by light men. Agendas that can be read on a variety of levels. How about Mattel's Barbie? The new "Multicultural" Barbie, relegating non-white dolls as "dolls of the world" while white, "american" dolls are normalized as the regular dolls.
MsgId: *infinities(108)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:45:20 EDT 1997
From: guest At: 152.163.205.87
Are you saying we should tell our kids, "Yeah, son, you may really love ..... but he is getting PAID to tell you to buy those shoes" ?
MsgId: *infinities(111)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:48:07 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Yes, we discuss the fact that Mike Jordan, etc... Is in this for the money, not for our benefit, not to help us. Nike doesn't care if we jump higher, only that we buy the shoes, and keep buying the shoes. We are now so aware of Nike, for instance, that the swosh is an international symbol. They don't even have to use the name -- we know. What other signifiers are there in our culture? The Golden Arches, Mickey Mouse???? The list goes on...
MsgId: *infinities(110)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:47:27 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to such huge entities.This makes the great propaganda machines of World War II pale by comparison.
MsgId: *infinities(113)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:50:37 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
It doesn't take courage, it takes anger and indignation. We are the ones here buying the products. Of course, it takes courage to put up with the name calling and the fact that it is considered unamerican to attack a company, however, we are the ones with the power, we never use it.
MsgId: *infinities(114)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:52:11 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
This is true -- the masses have rarely exploited the vast power they hold. It sounds to me as though the first step to breaking the cycle of corporate manipulation would be to read your book, not only to learn how this is being done but also to start the ball rolling toward developing the more efficient, stronger critical thinking we'll need to cope with ever more powerful manipulators.
MsgId: *infinities(116)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:54:10 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Propaganda is a word we don't use much anymore, yet the principle is involved in the promotion of all products....but remember, buying is not our only concern-that is the easy part-how do we engage our chiildren in a discussion about the political implications involved in the propaganda of advertising? Interestingly, there is a bit written on the fact that Huey, Dewey and Louie (the ducks) has paralleled american political policy since WW2 --- the racism, the flag waving, etc, was carried past the Vietnam (conflict) war and the ducks reflected the culture of the government. How about Desert Storm Barbie? How about Statue of Liberty Barbie? She invites all to come to her and be healed....that is propaganda...it is frightening.
MsgId: *infinities(117)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:56:42 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
It seems all the more frightening because it is so subtle, so much a part of the "background noise" that it goes unnoticed.
MsgId: *infinities(118)
Date: Sun Aug 3 22:57:43 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Taking up a form of critical thinking is essential in tackling these corporate images. Using what Kincheloe and I call a post-formal approach to thinking, using positionality, understanding societal dimensions even in simple "readings" of the world. Literacy should not be centered around the written word, it should be centered about as Paulo Freire stated, around reading the world. How do we see the world? Where are the power blocs (John Fiske)? Who is in control? Whose interests are served by these agendas?
MsgId: *infinities(119)
Date: Sun Aug 3 23:00:42 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
Dr. Steinberg, before we reach the end of our hour tonight, I have to ask you about the meaning of the intriguing dedication you and Dr. Kincheloe used in "KINDERCULTURE": "to John, Paul, George and Ringo".
MsgId: *infinities(120)
Date: Sun Aug 3 23:00:52 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
This conversation can be taken up by young children. Why do we protect those who exploit us? Naturally the hegemonic notion of control is involved here. Oppressed peoples remain oppressed thru a consent to support the power bloc. Opening our eyes to this bloc is difficult. How do we see power? Many refuse to even recognize it, claiming an innocent agenda. It is just there for entertainment. It is only fast food. don't take this stuff so seriously...etc.People thought J, P, G and Ringo were our four kids...that shows you how we have aged. They were our kinderculture, our consciousness was greatly affected by the music of l964 and so on... We are who we are in large part due to the sounds we heard and songs we were singing.
MsgId: *infinities(122)
Date: Sun Aug 3 23:03:48 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
I thought perhaps it might have been because their explosion on the music/popularity scene marked the start of the Big Campaign too... that is, the use of Big Campaigns such as marketing and manipulating The Beatles into icons that were useful sales tools.
MsgId: *infinities(124)
Date: Sun Aug 3 23:07:49 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Of course, dramatic advertising ushered in thru music and commercialism, was absolutely affected by the advent of the beatles -- they opened a pandora's box as people understood what popular culture was. We just aren't talking enough about how much popular culture "does" to us-shaping our identity, creating pleasure, creating meaning and political consciousness -- where ours was moved in a politically progressive (socially just) direction, i think, after kinderculture was colonized by corporations, it has moved children and youth into a right wing direction.
MsgId: *infinities(125)
Date: Sun Aug 3 23:09:36 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
Fascinating... I wish we could go on all night, but I'm sorry to say we've come to the end of our allotted time in INFINITIES Chat tonight, Dr. Steinberg. (Actually, we're a little over.)Thank you very much for being here tonight. Your book and this discussion are sure to open many people's eyes . . . even better, you'll get them thinking critically, examining and questioning. Any closing thoughts you'd like to add before we leave, Dr. Steinberg?
MsgId: *infinities(127)
Date: Sun Aug 3 23:10:33 EDT 1997
From: dr_shirley_steinberg At: 146.186.17.239
Thank you. We are obligated to work with our children and youth in identifying themes and agendas within kinderculture. Consumption is not innocent. Neither are the corporations that promote it.
MsgId: *infinities(129)
Date: Sun Aug 3 23:13:21 EDT 1997
From: OMNI_Moderator_Noonan At: 152.163.205.87
Excellent statement. Again, thank you very much for spending this time with us in OMNI's INFINITIES Chat, Dr. Steinberg.Good night, everyone! Be sure to join OMNI again for the next INFINITIES Chat next Sunday night! And I will be your host again on August 31 when our guest will be Jean Carper, author of "MIRACLE CURES."
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